Ep 38 | New School Grading: What to Expect

SPEAKER_03 0:00

That measurement of growth is not going to be there this year.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

It's removed.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

For this year. We are changing test. Um, the uh governor and the legislature decided we needed new standards. So we moved away from common core to now what is called the best standards for the state. And so when you change standards and you change the test, it's really hard to measure growth from one year to the next.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

It's apples to oranges.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

It's apples to oranges.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambi County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. We all want to set our kids up for success, and that includes sending them to the best-rated schools. We ask around, do the research, and even move into neighborhoods just to have access. And that's just for elementary school. As they get older, we keep an eye on it because, as it turns out, not only do the grades change with performance, our kids' needs may change. And the formula by which the performance is measured also changes. You almost need a physics degree to figure it all out. Luckily, my next guest spent 29 years teaching math and physics, studied engineering at Georgia Tech, and was a meteorologist in the Air Force. Today he's going to give us the lowbrow version of how school grades work and what to expect with the changes for the 2022-2023 school year. District data scientist, grade interpreter, change sherpa, Jim Bobbitt. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Good morning. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

I really think of you as a change sherpa. I think uh that's what this episode is all about.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Oh okay. I've I haven't been called that before, so that's a new one.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I also kind of think this is like potentially a great and powerful Oz moment. Right? Behind the curtain, it feels like there's something intimidating and looming. But hopefully when we uncover it, we'll be put at ease. That's what I'm hoping for here.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Usually understanding helps with that a lot.

unknown 2:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

So, and we should say that the information that we share today is up to date as of today. So that's fun. With all that out of the way, how is does the grading system work right? Uh how did it work?

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Okay, for the past seven years, um, it depended on your school level. Elementary had seven criteria, middle had nine, and high school had ten. Um, all three of them had English reading, math, science, and then middle school had social studies as well as high school having social studies. Middle school had an additional one for high school acceleration and industry certifications, and high schools had college acceleration and of course graduation, which is very important. But that's how it worked. So those categories were added together, and your average score on that was given as a percentile. And you had to make a certain percentile to receive the letter grades we're familiar with A, B, C, D, and of course the F.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

And when you're saying they, you're talking about the school, not the students.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Right, the school. This is the school grade. The the students, the students' results on the state testing um can determine things like graduation, promotion from third grade. Those things are determined based on their individual scores. But when we put all the school scores together, looking at just proficient proficiency, how well they performed on a one through five scale, and also how much they improved from the previous year, um, how many students actually showed that they went a year's worth of learning in one year, um, those factors came into the school grade. Um, so for elementary school, they only had seven categories. Okay. Um, proficiency, how was performing at a certain uh high level to be ready for the next grade, in i English and math, and then for the fifth graders science. But they had four of the categories, which was learning gains. Did they make growth? Did they show improvement from the previous year to show they made at least a year's worth of learning? Um and also the students who were the most struggling students, the weakest students, the weak we call them the lower scortile. Did they show growth? Were we making advancement with those students? Um and for the most part, we have been. And that's where the change is coming in. That's where the change is coming in. That measurement of growth is not going to be there this year.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

It's removed.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

For this year. We are changing test. Um the uh governor and the legislature decided we needed new standards. So we moved away from common core to now what is called the best standards for the state. And so when you change standards and you change the test, it's really hard to measure growth from one year to the next.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Because it's apples to oranges.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

It's apples to oranges. Um, which is a wonderful math term that's always used.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

But food is always a winner.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

It is, always, always. And so we don't have that measurement. Okay. So For this year. We believe strongly that it will come back in the future, but for this year that measurement's not available. Now, the last time we changed school grades back in 2015, we actually didn't have school grades that year.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

At all.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

At all. But this year the state decided we are going to have school grades. We're just going to have them without that measurement.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

So, okay. So you mentioned elementary school specifically in detail. Is that because this change impacts them more than middle and high?

SPEAKER_03 6:19

It impacts them more because um elementary is going from seven to three, middle is going from nine to five, and high school is going from ten to six for this year categories. So the good thing for middle and high school is they're keeping their stronger categories.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

The acceleration components and the graduation components have always been strong for middle school and high school. Um, we're very strong in the state in our middle school acceleration. And so that's actually as a percentage of their grade going to be higher. So it's actually I won't say it'll benefit them, but it's not going to be as detrimental as elementary losing over half their components. And when you're looking at a a school, especially in areas that have um struggling students, that growth is so important. Um, because that's how you can tell the school is actually making an impact, is student learning. You know, it's not no longer a measurement of how prepared the student was when they got there. It's how have they done with you at your school. And so that's unfortunately what's going away this year.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

So this will impact the grade of the school. What impact will it have on individual students?

SPEAKER_03 7:36

None.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Um because they well, I'll I say none. We don't know what the new test is. Whenever you have a new test, you're adjusting to it. But the grading scale for the students, we're actually using the same scale we've used the last seven years. They haven't adjusted that yet. They're going to do that after testing. So students were going to get scores May or June. We're not sure exactly when, um, just like they have for the last seven years. And those will be the scores that determine graduation, that determine promotion from third grade. But then there'll be meetings and decisions made between summer and fall on what the new scale is. And student scores may be adjusted at that point, but they'll always be in their new classes. They'll already be in their grades, they'll already have their graduation taken care of. So it won't have that immediate impact on the student.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

So this the immediate impact is more so on the parents' decision-making process on where they might want to place their child?

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Aaron Ross Powell That and perception of the schools, um, because it it may look like a school um is performing better or worse, depending on how the effect is. There also the way the grade is being calculated in the past, you had to reach a very certain percentage. You have however whether it was elementary, middle, or high, however many categories, you had to get um 63% of the points to be an A school. Okay. Um you had to get 41% of the student school points points to be a C school. Okay. We don't know what the percentage is this year.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Um what the state has decided to do is to take all the schools in the state and rank them based on the percentage of points they get this year. So all three thousand plus schools in the state. And then they're gonna say, we're gonna match the percentages we had last year. So last year 33% were A's. So we're gonna rank them all and the top 33% get an A. So we don't know if that score is gonna be a 65. We don't know if it's gonna be a 58. We don't know because we don't know what the top 33 are gonna be. Six percent of the schools in the state will be a DRF because that's what we had last year. And that's where they're gonna they're just gonna rank them and draw a line. So we don't know what target we're shooting for when we're looking at how we're doing. We just know we have to do the best we can.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

In the long term, do these school grades impact what funding they qualify for, the schools, I mean?

SPEAKER_03 10:16

In a normal year, um, there is special funding for schools that make D's and Fs. Um this year the school grades do not have an impact on schools that way. So if a school was a C or above and they make a D or F this year, they don't get the special funding moving forward from this year's results. If they were a DRF before and they make a C, they actually lose funding because they are considered to have come out of that status. But the state is saying that the earliest we're gonna see school grades is November, December. So those schools are gonna start with the funding at the beginning of the year. Um I haven't heard yet because I know um several people are at A schools, and there is usually extra money that comes to A schools as well, and that's usually because of performance, but we're not sure they're gonna do that with this year because again, of the way they're using the formula.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

It sounds like, if I'm hearing you correctly, that uh we are confident that the short-term impact will be almost nothing for students, but and we're just not sure about the long-term impact.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Aaron Powell Well, the the hope is, um, and we we've been very good as a system and we've as teachers, um, when the standards change, we have to learn the new standards. We have to learn how to teach them correctly. We have to know how to approach, and yes, a little bit of the test, how the testing is being done. And so that's a learning process. And this year because it's a new test, and there were literally 58 days from the day the legislation was signed to the first day of school, things are changing rapidly during the school year on the tests themselves, and we get updates. So as you said at the beginning, this is as of today. That's why. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Okay, so for parents, um other than being extra kind to the teachers, what what should parents do um in in response to all this?

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Aaron Ross Powell Be patient um and and let people know that if your school was uh an A or B or a C school and it drops this year, that's not a true indication of what the school was. Um it's because your school um may be doing a great job of having kids who are below grade level, moving towards grade level, but you won't be able to tell this year. Because it's really hard to go from being what we call uh performing at level one on a five-point scale to level three in one year. And that's all we're looking at this year. We're not looking at the students that moved up and got stronger and moved on grade level. We're just looking at did they make it, you know, which may be a two or three or four-year jump in ability. Uh so we can't really measure that this year. So be patient, um, understand that this year it's gonna be a little different. Um it will be in the newspaper when the grades come out, but understand that it may not be a true reflection. And be patient for them, because like I said, minimum late November, early December, and it might be later than that.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Okay. That's really interesting. So is there anything else that a parent who's listening to this should know or communicate differently with their kids' teachers in order to just, you know, be more grounded in what the reality is for them? I mean, you have all you have so much experience as a teacher in the hardest subjects, in my opinion. I know there's these crazy people like you who love math and physics. And I was on the other side. I loved English communication, shocking, I realize, considering my profession. But for those that are not, you know, inclined to those uh subjects, I think it's good to have people like you who can explain things in a way that is clear and concise. So is there anything for already overwhelmed parents to do to connect with their kids' teachers in struggling subjects?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Um communication. Um we do have the focus and the focus portal, um, being aware of how your students are doing and and having the communication with the teacher. Um most teachers um have um at least Google classrooms, if not Canvas classrooms now, where you can see what's expected and what's coming. Um in the parent portal in focus, um, you actually can see the progress monitoring that has been done through the state when you log into the focus portal and now it takes you there where you can immediately see how your student was performing in September and then in January, and then you'll see in May, and you will see the changes through the year that the student has made. Um so that's that's going to be something that has more information for the parents than we've ever had before on as far as the state testing goes. Um and you know, the the best thing is if you have a question, is ask the teacher. Um I always love to talk to parents and let them know if you know what was available for after-school tutoring or extra help or homework help. Or um you know, a few years back we had a book where if you um assigning the homework, the the many of the problems if you got stuck, it would there was a website that you go step by step and show you how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Oh, brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

And so instead of you know waiting for the next day to ask the question, you got a hint. And it can't and that's what it said. Do you want a hint? And we give you a hint. And if you were still stuck, it would give you another hint. And it would work you through that. So things like that, what is available, what can be done to help. Um, I know um I'm not sure it's um every school does it. We know there's some reading lists to stay um current um over the summer, because we we always see when we test in May and then we from the state, and then we come back in August. And there's what we call a summer slide sometimes, but um doing some of the things that are recommended over the summer, that can help. Um but you know, uh communication. That as you said, you know, English major, that's that's the number one thing is communicating. Um I think that would help the the parents and the students the best.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

And as we wrap up, I'd love for you to share what you want people to know about Escambia County public schools.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Well, I'm not a graduate of count of the school system, but my daughter is. Um, she was well prepared, um and she got the education and not just in the classroom, but she did theater, she did sports, um, she did everything that would you think of as a well-rounded student. And I think that's available at every high school. Um I'm my most of my experience is high school, sorry. I um my experience with elementary schools is I see hardworking, dedicated um people who love kids. Um I don't work with kids that small because I don't think they're it's I'm a little scary, I guess. Um but I thought you were gonna say they're scary. They are. Um I didn't want to say that, but um the mine wasn't when it was she was, but it it only when it was, you know, little I can respect that.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I can respect that. A lot of people would feel the absolute opposite that teenagers are horrifying.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

They're still kids. And and that's the thing is um kids are still kids. No matter how much things have changed, kids are still kids. Um and um I I enjoy working with them. Um uh it's it's fun to watch that light pop on. Um, it's fun to see them um set their goals and their aspirations of where they want to be. And that's one thing. Talk with, you know, talk with your your your, especially as they get older. What are your goals? What do you want to do? Um, there are a lot of options in this county with uh career tech, college prep, um military. Um we have programs that lead to everything. And all of them are good. I was I was a student who did a vocational program and took AP classes. And so they go together. It's not one or the other. And take advantage of every opportunity you have because we have a lot in this county.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Well said. Well, thank you for pulling back the curtain with me today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Anytime.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambia County Public Schools.