Ep 215 | Aviation Academy: Aerospace & Aircraft Assembly

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Pay for entry level is right about between 40 to 60,000, depending on the company that is going to be entry level? Yes, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

For a high school graduate?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Making more than me.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Holy moly. That's amazing. Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every child in Itcambia County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support your child's success. Whether we like it or not, opportunities can often concentrate to those first in line. And for seniors in high school, missing or making prime opportunities can set the trajectory for adulthood. My next guest is the Aviation Academy instructor at Booker T. Washington, who is working to ensure that his students are ready to make the most of what's next as they celebrate being the second high school in Florida to offer industry certs in both aerospace and aircraft assembly. Today he's going to get us up to speed for certification and beyond. Industry Connector, Career Launcher, Mr. Mark Rabb. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I should say welcome back, actually, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yes, ma'am. Last year.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Well, we often hear that having your high school diploma opens doors, but this particular set of certs seems kind of like next level. What doors do you feel like it'll be opening for your students?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Okay, well, last summer I went to Melbourne, visited a high school down there, our counterpart down there, since we mentioned another high school, and talked to and dealt with some industries down there. And I've been in touch with them before. And they're interested in taking students out of my program that earn the certification and starting entry-level positions with them. We're talking folks like Martin Marietta, L3 Aerospace, Northrop Grumman.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

These are big names on the Space Coast.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Very big names on the Space Coast. Wow. Yeah, and they're they're interested in taking students. It doesn't give them a job, it gets them there.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Well, isn't that half the battle now in the modern marketplace of jobs? It's like because no one really applies in person anymore, you kind of become one of thousands when you apply online.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Exactly. You got to find some way to get somebody to look at your resume instead of just dropping it on the floor and going to the next one. And this certification, it's aerospace aircraft assembly technician certification, is a big ticket to get them in there.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

So does the certification get students up to the jobs right out of high school, or is this positioning them at the head of the line at, say, like George Stone, which will then get them the strong job?

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Well, graduating my program, finishing my program will get them head of the line at George Stone.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

So they can get that preferential treatment there. But this could get them a job interview.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Even before George Stone.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yes. Entry level with this certification.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Wow. That sounds very next level. Okay. So what would the jobs look like as far as like day-to-day? What would they be doing? Do you have an idea of their pay?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Pay for entry level is right about between 40 to 60,000, depending on the company that is going to be.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Entry level?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

For a high school graduate?

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Making more than me.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Holy moly. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yeah. But remember, these are down on the space coast.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

They got a little bit higher cost of living down there. And that's probably one of the bad parts about it that students will have to up and move to Cocoa Beach or Melbourne. But how can that really be bad?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

I mean, that is literally my favorite surf spot, is Cocoa Beach, Florida. So, you know, I wouldn't be mad about that, but I could understand why that might feel intimidating for a student. But on the other hand, it could also feel like a really lovely fresh start.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

It is. And I'm trying to work out, and this is going to take a little bit of time for students to have a way to move down there, not just go there blindfold. You know, it's just real scary. It's scary for students to go to school over a mobile from here.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Right. So Yeah, it's changed. It's different, different environment. Well, what about the day-to-day of a job at one of these places for students with a certification? What would that look like?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Okay. Now, uh assembly technician is somebody that's going to take a bunch of parts, say a radio, and they're just going to put them together. You might have to do soldering, you might have to do some plugging or drilling holes, setting some rivets, something like that. So it's just going to be building stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

I don't know why, but when I heard assembly, you're going to laugh at this. My mind went to the I Love Lucy episode, you know, where they're in the factory with the chocolates. And I don't know why. That's a me problem, I'm sure of it. But it's not at all that. This is like complex puzzle putting together kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yes. And as they start advancing and getting more and more and more in depth into their knowledge, they might start bending metals and actually forming different shapes that would fit onto an aircraft, building an actual panel instead of just assembling it.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

What would upward mobility look like?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

You have a work center, a workshop, say you're an airframer. You'll go in there, you'll be an airframe technician, entry level, you're going to be the guy. And like any place, you're going to have to do the dirty jobs and this, that, and the other. And then you start learning how to assemble something. You assemble it. And as you progress, you can become the supervisor of that. You might have something that'll work underneath you. Of course, that comes with promotions and increased pay, increased responsibility. Also, they have what they call, and it depends on the company, inspectors that will ensure that each part is built with the company's standards, their quality standards. Now that's something that a technician can move up into. And each of these will get the person in charge of, say, production of all of this. You might be a person that's in charge of two or three different little workshops, making sure everybody's producing. So it's kind of like any other manufacturing organization.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

But the deal is we're dealing with airplanes. And airplanes have very, very, very strict inspection and quality criteria.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

For good reason, right? Exactly. Yeah. And your former Navy, right? 25 years as an airplane mechanic and then aviation mechanics instructor. What about students thinking about military service? Would these certifications help them?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

It doesn't get them advancement, but it gives them knowledge. When I joined the Navy, I was thrown into this aviation school not knowing anything about an airplane. I thought I knew airplanes. I learned real quick I was wrong. And they will have a level of knowledge that I didn't have. So they would be able to probably advance themselves a lot quicker. And they would stand out. Absolutely. So yeah, with the military, and I'm trying to work with that just a little bit. I talk with recruiters all the time. Recruiters love coming to my class. And I'm trying to say, look, if I give you this guy, he gets this certification, he gets this certification, and he gets this, why don't you give him an accelerated advancement? Make him like an E3 right off the bat. Can you do that?

SPEAKER_01 8:34

I love how you're brokering deals in the background.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Well, yeah, that's part about my being a Navy chief. We can calm shawl and and and barter and all that.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

You were, if I remember this correctly, talking with Leonardo helicopters, right? You were trying to get something worked out with them as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yes. We're not doing too good with them right now. It's they're still new in the area, and we're not a real big helicopter group yet, but I still want to get into that. We are talking quite a bit with ST Aerospace. How's that going? Very well. I'm very excited about ST Aerospace. We're trying to get internships for my folks. Soon as they graduate, they can get into that and they'll have an internship over there.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Oh, that would be exciting. Yeah, you really are kind of the person finding the opportunities and playing matchmaker and lying it all up, which is so interesting to me because when I think about the role of an instructor, I think the goal for someone in that position is to bring the student to that point of understanding, help them know the things. But you are going way above and beyond to help them make money knowing the things.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

It's not just helping them, it's helping all of us. Because I don't want to just turn somebody loose on the world with no direction. I can at least get somebody going this direction if they want to go into, say, the aviation world and ST aerospace might be a good place for them to start. And they might find a year later that that's not really what they want to do, but at least they have a direction and they know stuff.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah, yeah. I love that. At your academy, there is an actual hangar with an aircraft, correct?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Got two aircraft down.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

So does the aerospace part of this program mean that additional airframes will be added?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Uh what we do basically is get junk airplanes. Right. Tear the panels off of them, fix them, and put them back. So we try to do a repair to them. Then one I have right now, I got a twin-engine piper that looked like it was flipped. So the top end of it's caved, which is great for us because now we can drill out all the rivets, get the panel off, try to beat it back into shape and see if we can't make it look like an airplane again.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

I think that is just the coolest thing ever, that there's an actual hangar and actual aircraft. What does the curriculum look like for the aerospace aircraft assembly certification specifically? How is it different from what you typically do?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

We are spending more time actually using hands-on with tools. We're using precision measuring tools, we're using cutting tools that we haven't had before. We're drilling all kinds of rivets, we're installing all kinds of rivets, you name it. All the airframe or aerospace rivets that we can get. We're learning how to install them. Maybe our my students ain't gonna be the best at it. Right now, when they do riveting, they leave what the industry calls smileys, which means it's a little mark on the rivet head that looks like a smile. So we got to get them to where they're not doing that, but it takes practice.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

See, this is this is why I love these conversations, because that is not even something that was in my purview at all. In my mind, I have it envisioned as a puzzle. And congratulations, student, you put puzzle piece A in where it goes. And and that is like the goal. I never even thought about like finesse or technique or, you know, really, I feel like what you're describing is craftsmanship.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, that's a good term for it. It is a real good term for it, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

That's fascinating. When I think of aerospace, I also think of robotics. Is there an overlap there at all?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Absolutely. Even if we don't build a robot, just the systems in a robot are the same systems in an aircraft. You got the computers, you got the drives, you got actuators, you know, all this stuff, it's all there. So they work with each other. And that's why we do we have a robotics program. We do competition every year. Within your program or in addition to is another this is outside, it's best robotics, and it's a nationwide competition. So we have a hub and various different schools and organizations. They have these students that build a robot and they go compete.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

How many of your students compete?

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I had this past year, I think about 20 students all total.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

That sounds like a lot.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Well, it's not just building the robot, they have to sell the robot.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

There's a marketing aspect to it. We build a product and we have to sell it.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

So as far as that goes, we have a team that actually is the entrepreneur team, if you would. They figure out a way to sell this product that we build to actual buyers. And part of the competition is they have to do a presentation. They have to sell that robot to a group of buyers.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

I would think that would increase the student understanding of the mechanics of what they are building as well. Because as you know, as an instructor yourself, anytime that you have to teach what you know, it deepens your knowledge of what you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. And it's really fascinating in aspect because you have people who are not in my program that are part of this robotics team that are doing the selling, doing the marketing, doing the fundraising. And we've got to raise money too to go on these competitions. So they have to understand what our robot is doing, what their product is doing. So they don't know what it's doing. They got to come learn.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

I mean, everything you're describing sounds like working in a department at a big tech corporation.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Pretty much. When it comes to the robotic aspect, yes, ma'am, it pretty much is. It's you got these people over here that don't know how to build it, but they know how to sell it. You got these people to know how to sell it, but don't know how to build it, you know, and you got somebody that's trying to coordinate all of it together.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Now, normally students who want to participate in your program need to enroll as a freshman, correct?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yes, it's a four-year program.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

And that's for this aerospace aircraft assembly certification as well, right? That's a part of the program, not separate from it.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

That is the capstone, if you will, of the program. Okay. They can not have to be in there four years. They need, I think the the criteria is like 500 hours in the program. So I got to give them 500 hours of seat time or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

So does that mean if if a student comes into his freshman year a little late, or maybe as a sophomore, there's some wiggle room there to make up those hours. It doesn't have to be a true freshman.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

That's good news.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I got a lot of candidates that are that way.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I have some who were really, really, really hard chargers. They came in in one year and knocked out most of the certifications that I have.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

And this year, I'm really amazed at my freshmen this year. The certifications is my robotics certification and my pre-engineering certification. I focus that on my sophomores and my freshmen's pre-engineering first, then the robotics. And then we start to focus on the AAA when they get to be a sophomore. That's when we really get more advanced into using our hands and tools and actually using power tools and stuff like that. This year, it's the first time in my experience that I have freshmen earning both my pre-engineering and my robotics certifications. Wow. Typically, it's right around the sophomore when they start earning the pre-engineering. It's a three-test process minimum. They have to pass a fundamentals test and they have to pass a module on aerospace and then a module on electrical, mechanical, computer science, something like that. And this morning, we had a certification test. And speaking of starting late, I have a sophomore that started this year. He just this morning took the last test for the year. He is one test away from completing all eight of the modules for the certification, which is very impressive. Very impressive.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

That is. It's impressive also in the flexibility of the program to show how students can dial it up if they need to, or dial it back if they need to. That's really interesting. What about middle school? Because I would assume if you need to start as a freshman to be a part of the program, that sort of seed would be need needing to be planted in middle school. How would a parent of a middle schooler look into enrolling their child in the program?

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Well, on our website, the school website, they do have the program, the synopsis of the academy. And I do believe they still have our last podcast on there where we had our chat. Okay. So they could go there and listen. We have our school choice expo, which is typically the very first week of November or the very last week of October, where we open up, and interestingly enough, it's at Washington, our high school, we open it up to all the academies to come and show off what they do. And we usually get a pretty good turnout. Many, many, many, many, many people come out there. And I try my best to market my program. I get all my students or as many students as I can out there, and they are basically recruiting.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

And they do a very good job. Now I have a hard time competing against with folks like the culinary folks that can make cookies and cakes and all that and bribe kids, but I mean robots are pretty sexy. Well, you really haven't seen our robots. Now the robots we build are we get a kit, which basically is motors and a computer brain and controllers. Then we get a big box of stuff from Home Depot or Lowe's. PVC, wood, you know, brackets and hinges and what have you, whatnot. And then without knowing what we got to do, they give us a kit, then they tell us you got to build a robot to do this using only that. I think that's so cool. So the kids do it, they do a fabulous job. It doesn't look pretty, but they're functional.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Well, and it's still something that they made, you know? And so the pride behind that is an added layer of appeal, plus aerospace, a total added layer of appeal, especially right now, right? And you have another feather in your cap being the second high school in the whole state to even have this program. How did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Well, it was started before I became involved in the program. And we were trying to push towards that, but then we had COVID come in, and that just disrupted everything. And at the time, I was too new to really even follow up on this. But a few years later, I'm looking through some old information and I pick it up and I'm like, hey, this is us. This is what we do. All I got to do is change this, this, this, and this, and we're there. And this year, we started this program back in September, August, when we first came into the school year. And this past week, we had our first four certifications. So our program's doing good. We're working.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Your charter members have flown the coop.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah. They graduate here in a couple days, and yes. And I got two more testing this afternoon. So we'll see how that goes. So I'm really excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Well, most of the time when I line up topics and guests for this show, I'm the one reaching out to the guests to get them to come on. But in this case, you reached out to me for this one. Why is it so important to you to spend extra time getting the word out about this?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Because I need more people in my program. I want to have a program where we have two teachers, three teachers teaching this stuff, not just me. So I want to get it to that point where Washington High School also has a school that goes along with it. You know, I want us to be known for aviation.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

You have a vision.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I do.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Any any final thoughts before we close out?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah, we're expanding our program even farther.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Starting next year, gonna teach first electronics class. It's actually avionics, aviation electronics.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Wait, there's another whole program coming?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Well, it's gonna be a class.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

We're gonna see how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

I think it is. There was a lot of interest in avionics from ST Aerospace and a couple of the folks down on the space coast.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Oh. So it's almost like you're reverse engineering it. So you went and had these conversations with them, and then they said, okay, maybe, but we're definitely interested in this electronics part of it. And you said, Let me see what I can do.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

I told them what I can do. My experience, my 25 years in the Navy, I wasn't an avionics technician. So this is what I've done for my entire adult life. So now if we can get this off the ground and get it going, we will be an only school in Florida, basically this side of Orlando, that offers this program. Wow. So it's aircraft electronics technician, and it's another certification that we're going to work on. That's impressive. So we're going to be a full-fledged aircraft academy.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

That sounds so exciting. I can just I feel the vision leaking out from your side of the table to mine. And I'm on board. I can't wait to have a front row seat to see these things come to fruition.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

So if we have it right now, we got airframes, which is what our main focus is right now. We're going to build up electronics. And in the future, maybe we'll do the engines. So we'll see how that goes. Like I say, that's what I want them more teachers in there. So we'll have an electronics teacher, we'll have a airframes teacher, and we'll have a power plants teacher.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

That's exciting. Well, thank you again for coming on and sharing your vision. And we are all cheering you on.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Come out and visit us anytime.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambia County Public Schools.