Ep 216 | Are graduation rates really on the rise?

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We're giving them every opportunity and they're going to walk across that stage ready to sprout their wings and fly. And we're very, very proud of that. And it is something I believe our community is proud of. So whether it be 89.5% or like it's going to be next year, close to 92%, we have been successful with that cohort and will continue to be.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

That may not be a song name you remember, but it's a tune you know, played at nearly every high school graduation ceremony ever. It represents student success and coming of age, but it also means more job opportunities, earning potential, and access to further education. That's why Escambia County Public Schools is celebrating its 2024-2025 graduation rate of 89.5%. My next guest is the school district superintendent. And today he's going to unpack how that number is calculated and what it means for the future of our community. Investing in the future and celebrating growth, momentum builder, Mr. Keith Leonard. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Thank you for having me, Meredith.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

89.5% is ginormous. Is this a record?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

That's what they tell me. They tell me that the 89.5 is the highest graduation rate we've ever had. I haven't gone back and checked the history books or anything like that, but we're very proud of that 89.5 graduation rate, 24, 25. Proud of those students, proud of their teachers, academic advisors, their moms and dads, their guardians, because everybody plays a role in being able to get that one student across that stage on graduation night. And we're very proud of that 89.5.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

That's such a good point. It's not one person or even one team. It's all the persons and all the teams working together to get every student, as many as possible, to that finish line.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Absolutely. It takes everybody. I always talk about our team at the Scambia County School District. With that being said, I need to thank you for what you do and the team member that you are for our Scambia County School District. This podcast has been a tremendous success. It's getting the good news out there about what we do in the Scambia County public school system. So I would be remiss if I didn't tell you thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Well, thank you. It is too early to make me tear up. So that'll be enough of you, sir.

unknown 2:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

But I do appreciate it. Yes. And I want to dig in more into these stats because I'm excited about this number two. But stats are both fun and funny, you know, because they're fun because they're a feather in your cap. And they're a little funny sometimes because they're not as simple as we would think. So let's kind of dig into that a little bit. Have the standards for qualifying for graduation been lowered? And this could possibly be a contributing factor to the 89.5?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

No, they have not been lowered. If anything, they've increased, they've been enhanced. The clock for a student actually starts the first day they enter ninth grade. And then that student, in order to be a successful graduate, has to graduate four years after that initial start date. There is no open window. You don't get an extension period of time. It's that entire cohort. So one student, two students, or 3,000 students. When they enter into ninth grade, they have four years to be able to graduate on time to be a successful graduate as far as the graduation rate is concerned. You have to have 24 credits to be able to graduate on time in those four years to be able to receive those 24 credits. You have to have a 2.0 GPA minimal to be included in that cohort. So yeah, if anything, it's been enhanced. We're okay with that. I know what we need to be able to do for our students is make certain that when they do graduate, they're ready for work. They're ready to be successful in life. They're ready to be good family members. And we take that to heart each and every day.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Well, it helps their confidence too. Confident kids grow into confident adults. And when you kind of, you know, cross that finish line with your peers, it helps with that.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah, absolutely. We always talk about we don't want a kid just to be successful in school. More importantly, we want them to be successful in life. So getting that high school diploma is that great first start in whatever decision they make to make certain that they are successful.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

So how are these numbers calculated now versus the past? Like was there any difference if like for summer school or if a student moves or is maybe held back a grade, are those all dynamics that have shifted at all from past to present?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

So I I'm a lot older than you, but it I graduated from high school in 1981. At that time, you had to have 18 credits during that four-year period. Then I believe they went to 21, and now in the state of Florida, it's at 24 credits. So yeah, there's been changes along the way. And I believe those changes have been have been something that we have welcomed, that we have embraced, and we've made certain that our students are ready when they walk across that stage.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Do you know of any of those specific changes that you can name?

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Sometimes the core curriculum has changed throughout the years. Some of the things that we've done in our own school district is we've moved a couple of high school credits, in particular biology and algebra, into the middle school ranks. So now there's going to be other core curricula, other core classes that those students are going to be able to take while they're in middle school. That's a self-imposed impact that we've done in our own school district, but it's led to success. It's led to our middle school students being the number one acceleration school district in the state of Florida. And I think another thing that that does is it provides the word that you just used, it provides confidence to those students that, hey, here I am in middle school and I'm already graduating high school classes. I'm going to be okay when I get to high school. I don't know about you. I didn't take algebra until I got into the ninth grade in high school, and that was a pretty eye-opening experience for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah, I I suddenly became sick a lot. You know? I was like, oh, I'm not feeling good, mom. Yeah. Gotta stay home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Did that work? It didn't work for me. My dad said you can be sick at school, boy. Get up and go.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, yeah. No, no, it sure didn't. But it's interesting that you mentioned middle schools because I interviewed someone else for the show that said that graduation success rate starts in middle school. So that's interesting that you said our middle schools had the number one acceleration rate in the entire state of Florida.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

I mean, that sounds like a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

It is a big deal. It's workforce education within our academies that are helping us get there. It's those high school credits while they're in middle school that's helping us achieve that number one rating. And also, I believe that that just enhances those opportunities for our high school students, therefore leading to a higher graduation rate. You know, it it may be a big puzzle, but when you start putting all the pieces together, you start seeing success, which is really what we're trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah, we're keeping the main thing the main thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

So back to the kind of logistics of that graduation rate number. So what does happen if a student moves? Does that count against our graduation rate? Because I imagine that would be particularly challenging in a military community like ours.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

It's a very good question. If the student leaves our school district and is removed from that cohort, we are not penalized. If a student enters our school district, let's say a person moves in in the 11th grade and they're moving in here from Virginia, they are going to have to meet the Florida requirements for graduation. So we have to pay very close attention to what courses they've taken in their previous high school, but they come into that cohort in the 11th grade regardless of where they had been or what courses they had taken. And it is our responsibility to make certain they end up meeting those 24 credits, that they have the core courses that are required within those 24 credits, and that they have a 2.0 GPA, and that they graduate at the end of that four-year window from whenever they entered ninth grade.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

That's really interesting. So the military families coming in present both benefits and challenges from an education standpoint and to those final year in numbers.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

When you really see us up against the wall trying to make certain that we're able to provide that opportunity, whether it be a military child or it'd be Keith Leonard moving in from Alabama, whoever or whatever it may be, when they move in like the second semester of their senior year and they've been in a different state with different requirements, and that's when we really go into full gear and we look for every opportunity we can, whether it be virtual school, course recovery if we need to do that, our academic advisors, so that we can check every one of those boxes so that within that four-month, five months, six-month period that they are able to graduate with their graduating class.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

And you said course recovery. Does that mean when a student has summer school in order to kind of catch up, that doesn't count against these numbers at all?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Aaron Powell It would count against our numbers if we didn't get them across the finish line.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

And it whether it's a three-month period or 24-month period, that is on our school district to make certain that that student gets the the courses that are required by the state of Florida to earn a Florida diploma. The difficult part to explain or for our audience to be able to understand when we talk about course recovery. Some sometimes when students are in college, they'll they'll take a class and maybe they don't get the grade that they had hoped for, and they can retake that course. We also offer that same type of opportunity for our students here in our school district. And it may not be during the normal day. It may be after school, and we may be offering that course recovery after school. That also enhances the opportunity for a student to get above that 2.0 GPA if they've been having difficulty in school. And quite frankly, sometimes, you know, life circumstances. Maybe a student's been extremely ill and it's been for an entire semester. We were we're going to make certain that we give that student every opportunity, whether it be through course recovery, virtual school, community school, whatever it may be, so that we can get that student that diploma.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Well, as you're talking, I'm remembering all of the smaller programs that we featured on the show that are contributing towards that. Like I think it's called SOAR at Pine Forest. Success Academy, certainly not a small program, but that is a huge impact. And all of the mentors along the way that are helping kids get caught up. So it's it's interesting to me the picture that's being painted in my head right now of this bigger picture number, feather in the cap of 89.5%. But all of the small efforts along the way that have really been formed, sometimes just really grassroots in a grassroots way of a teacher being like, Hey, I happen to be good at this. The kids happen to listen to me. Let's get them caught up so that they are on track, which I think from a statistical standpoint is so important to highlight because I always try to have these conversations with the most cynical listener living in the back of my brain. And it might be tempting for someone to think, like, oh, of course, you know, they're, you know, adjusting the numbers by changing those standards or expelling the kids, and then, you know, and then we can still make our end number look good. But it's actually, it sounds like it's a quite the opposite happening.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, there's it's a complex system. Our school district is a complex system with a lot of interconnection that has to take place through each division, each department, each school, each grade level to provide the opportunities for our students to be successful. And that's something that our families in our school district and our county should be very proud of, where we're able to take that complex system, connect everybody, provide them with the the best chance, the best opportunity to be successful. And I think we do one heck of a job within our school district as it relates to that.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

I have a couple of more questions from that inner critic, if if you don't mind. One of them is to what extent are the graduation rates because there are just simply fewer students enrolling in public school? I can't imagine that's not a dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

It's all relative when you talk about a numerator and a denominator. You know, if you only had 10 students and you graduated nine out of that 10 in that cohort, that'd be a 90%. If you've got a thousand and you'd graduate 900 out of that thousand, that's a 90% rating. So it's all relative. Whether we have 10 that are ready to graduate or we have a thousand, we're going to interact and do the same thing with all of them. But no, there's no manipulation, you know, when you start talking about statistics. The only thing I know there's a difference between a percentage and a percentile, but we're doing pretty good to get right at 90% of our students. Where I get concerned as the superintendent is what do we need to do to get that other 10% of our students?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

You're already ahead. You're like that Olympian that like gets the gold medal one year and then isn't worried about next year getting the gold again.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

And I don't think it's just myself that's like that. I think we've got, you know, around 5,000 employees who think that way. What can we do to improve and uh think we're headed down that road? I'm fairly confident that we're headed down that road to success. But yeah, I don't get caught up in uh the percentages and the percentiles, the numerator and the denominator. You know, I what I what I get excited about is when on May 26th and 27th, we'll go to the Bay Center for all day and all night to provide each of those students that started four years ago and are going to be successful and have that opportunity to walk across that stage at the base center. That's what wraps everything up from when they started in pre-K in our school district. And that's my yin and my yang.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah, that makes sense. Another one is about zero tolerance policies. I've heard that they have a pretty negative effect on students, but that they sound appealing to parents from the outside looking any anyway. Has there been a change in those policies that let students have second or third chances to continue their high school education instead of being just automatically expelled?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah. Well, we have a disciplinary matrix that is uh board approved. It's in our student handbook, but it tells you what all those consequences will be for various offenses. I think you and I have had this conversation before. I I think consequences are important. I think uh we're all I don't know about you, but I got in trouble a couple of times when I was in school, and I'm I'm glad they gave me second chances. But my discipline was congruent to my action. And I I truly believe that that has to take place for us to to be able to have good order within our schools, and we we do a really good job of that. This past year that we're getting ready to conclude, we started a pilot program. One of the things that we've seen an an uptick in is the use of vapes. And I I don't think that's just with young people. I think that is general to our public. So what we did is we started a program with two of our high schools instead of just immediately sending those students to an alternative setting after they get caught, that we would give them an opportunity to redeem themselves through a cessation program, talking about making good decisions. We have a a good partner. Actually, that partner is going back to our board for approval again.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

That's hope above fear, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Hope above fear next Tuesday. It's been very successful at our two schools. What we're asking our board to approve is for us to be able to implement that at all of our high schools and alternative centers for that matter. So that is one of the examples of a second chance program. There are certain offenses, you know, if you're caught with a weapon on campus, uh that we take that very, very seriously, and you'll be dismissed from school. We have hearing officer that hears all the facts as it relates to what that disciplinary action would be. We have due process, you have a chance for a formal hearing, and you may end up with alternative placement. Very seldom, it's few and far between, but there are at times there are actions by students that will lead to expulsion. But it is our hope that we've been able to do everything we can to try to prevent that student being taken out of the opportunity for public education. That's really what we are about and what we try to do. But there have been uh uh on a few occasions there have been situations where we've had to dismiss students.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah. Yeah. I love that you're experimenting. That's the other thing that I've noticed this school year is there seems to be a lot of you know how in the news you always hear, well, Iceland is doing X or Y. Well, yeah, Iceland is quite small compared to the United States of America. So what I think is so interesting about Escambie County Public Schools is I've noticed that you're doing Iceland experiments with different sections of the school district. Maybe it's just the schools in the case of Hope Above Fear, or maybe it's just certain pockets of students, but you're working to test out the benefits and and the results that y'all are getting.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

And I'm looking forward to what we'll be able to see when we get it at all seven of our high schools, what type of impact that will have. I think it will be a positive impact. One of the things that we've seen a decrease in as it relates to disciplinary action is cell phones. Once the law was passed where you wouldn't have cell phones anymore in elementary and or middle schools, that's been very beneficial. I think it's also going to help us academically.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Was that surprising to you?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

No, it was a if I was surprised, I didn't act like it because I had really hoped that that would come down the pipe from a legislature. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem if they made certain that you couldn't have them in high school as well. We would make certain that parents were contacted if there was an emergency or if there was a need to be able to do so. But anything that distracts from really what the purpose of hand is when you're at school, I'm all for eliminating those.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

And the safety badges, they really fill in the gap for the rebuttal from the parents because they're like, well, what if something happens? I don't think that they'd understand that y'all's lanyards have a built-in 911 GPS double triple chat, whatever your your code is, and it gives emergency responders your exact location in the building. And it's way faster than if a parent were to try to get help, and certainly more effective if a parent were to show up at the building.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Absolutely. And uh hope our parents trust that we're gonna take care of their student, all 33,335 of them. We're gonna do it every day. But thank you for asking the question about some of the things that we're trying to do. You're never gonna eliminate all the, you know, some some disciplinary action. There you're gonna have times where that does need to occur. We're very fortunate that we spell out what those disciplinary actions will be for particular offenses. And we go over it with our students, whether they're in elementary, middle, or high school. Because that's really who needs to know what those consequences are going to be. But I'm very proud of what we've been able to do and how we've brought down the number of disciplinary actions within our school district.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Aaron Powell Yeah, after all, they don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex. So we gotta we gotta work with them.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Aaron Powell I'm 62 and I'm still working on growing up. So yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Outside of the obvious reasons, why do these graduation numbers matter?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Aaron Powell It's what sets someone up for what the next step in life is going to be. One of the things I believe, uh you've already used the word confidence uh a couple of times, it gives them that confidence of succeeding and being able to accomplish a goal that they've had within their life. Many of them have had to overcome some obstacles within that four-year period or within that 13-year period, being able to pick yourself up by the bootstraps and say, okay, I made it today. Let's see what we're going to be able to do tomorrow. We set them up, whether it be in military to be able to go on and serve in our military for our United States of America, very proud of those students that do that. We give ample opportunities as it in the trades to be able to either go next to Georgetown State Technical College. So whether it be a trades job or whether it be going on to college, whether it's Pensacola State or University of West Florida or any uh any other school or university you want to go to, I feel like we've set them up for that number one word, and that is success. That's what's important about walking across that stage.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Do you also want to talk about how these grade percentages or the how these graduation percentages affect the grading scale and acceleration?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Absolutely. So acceleration, which is all of our workforce, and in middle school, it's not just workforce, it's also taking high school coursework, is one of the components of this total. School grade, and then also graduation rate for our high school students and those particular high schools. That is one of their data points for school grades. Try not to get caught up in all the school grade hoopla, but that is how we're measured. That is what a lot of the community looks like. You know, am I going to a C school, a B school, or an A school? So one of our responsibilities is to make certain we're pushing all of our students and we're pushing all of our faculty and staff to do the very best we can. So those are two data points acceleration and graduation rate for those high school grades.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

And they're pride points too. I can't tell you how many principals we've had on the show that are like, hey, we got to brag about the grade upgrade that we got for our school, which I think is is tremendous. Which leads me to my next question about teacher salaries. When you have a bragging point like 89.5% graduation, does that impact teachers' salaries in a positive way at all?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Well, it can because it also is a part of the school grade calculation. And if our schools maintain that high grade or they they they bump up from a C to a B, they'll they'll get a bonus. Uh and the entire team on that faculty, it's money that's allocated by the state, would be able to vote how they want to be able to distribute that money. The SACs, the School Advisory Council plays a role in that. So it does certainly lead to a little bit of a bonus for the entire staff, more than likely, at each of our schools that do find themselves either keeping that letter grade or bumping it up. The teacher salary increase allocation is also provided to us through the state. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a school grade or graduation rate, but it is funding that we're able to use to provide a salary increase for all of our teachers. So that's the only group that's eligible for. You have to be an instructional staff member. So that was a really good question. School grades do impact through the bonus program through the state what a teacher perhaps can earn depending upon what their school has received.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

For the 2025-2026 school year, which is the one we are, as of this recording, currently looking at, are you worried that the previous year numbers might be a non-repeatable anomaly?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Aaron Powell I'm not too worried about that. I think you may end up saying, I think may maybe I get to come back here again next year, this same time, and report to you that we've had a little bit of an increase from that 89.5. Maybe we break that 90% threshold and get 90.5, 91, maybe even a 92% graduation rate. The people that I talk to, the data that we have that we we take a look at prerequisitely showing that we'll more than likely see another increase. Great work by our team, and most importantly, those students that will be in that graduating class of 2027.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

So you're not just placing bets. This is like preliminary numbers that you have may or may not have viewed that are pointing to a very positive direction.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

That is correct.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Okay. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Very exciting.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Oh my gosh. So for our county, what does all of this mean? What's the butterfly effect of a year-over-year 90% plus graduation rate?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

The butterfly effect is we've we're giving 3,000 students that started 13 years ago or four years ago in this cohort or two years ago, whatever it may be, the opportunity to put their wings out and fly because of what we've been able to do for them in the Escambia County School District.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

And do better than their parents. I think that's what every parent wants for their kid, is not to see their struggles on replay.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

No. We're giving them every opportunity and they're gonna walk across that stage ready to sprout their wings and fly. Then we're very, very proud of that. And it is something I believe our community is proud of. So whether it be 89.5% or like it's gonna be next year, close to 92%, we have been successful with that cohort and will continue to be.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Thank you so much for this. I am celebrating along with you, and I appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Thank you, Meredith.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambia County Public Schools.