Ep 157 | Enabling disabled students in our community

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I think our partnership, as Pam said, we've been doing this together for a long time, and I think the opportunities definitely have become much larger, more available. I think parents are more engaged in the employment environment and considering students going to work versus staying at home. So to me, that's a notable change.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambia County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. Congratulations! You have a healthy baby boy. This is the first milestone of many for your child, the more final of which being graduating from high school. That is, until you're hit with the big question of what now? And for families with children with disabilities, that big question can feel even bigger. My next guests are the program specialist for the district extended program with Escambia County Public Schools and the Director of Project Search at Global Connections to Employment. Today they're going to share how Project Search is changing the employment landscape for young adults with disabilities in the areas of availability, access, and perception, advocating for community and finding solutions. Lisa Bloodworth and Pam Sabula, thanks for being here. Thank you. We're excited to be here. Yeah, thanks for having us. So, Lisa, you've been with Global Connections to Employment for 36 years. And Pam, you've been with the district for 33 years. In terms of post-high school support for people with disabilities, what have the two of you seen change since then?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

One of the things that I have noticed since 2020 is the opportunities for our students with disabilities increasing. We find people in our communities not willing to sign up or do some of the jobs that are needed to help the community function as a whole. Oh, you're talking about the great resignation. Yes. Our students with disabilities, our adults, our 18 to 22-year-olds, are very competent and capable. They want to work, they show up, they do good work. So we are finding employers that are more willing to accept and give them the opportunity when in the past they may not have. I love that. What about you, Lisa?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

What have you seen? Employer perception has changed. It's not perfect, not exactly where we want it to be all the time, but definitely employers are more open to giving students with disabilities an opportunity to work. They're finding that they work just as well as anyone who doesn't have a disability. I think our partnership, as Pam said, we've been doing this together for a long time. And I think the opportunities definitely have become much larger, more available. I think parents are more engaged in the employment environment and considering students going to work versus staying at home. So to me, that's a notable change.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

I love that. That's so interesting. Okay, a question for you, Pam, on perception, because I think for parents and employers alike, there's a temptation to infantilize people with disabilities to see them as babies without agency. How do you overcome that?

SPEAKER_01 3:40

One of the big words I know that we use in our department, in the ESE department, is presuming competence. We always want to presume that a person is teachable, trainable. We know that they're able to think, learn, and then take those skills to understand them. We don't ever want to take that opportunity away from someone.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

So how do you transfer that outlook from you who would understandably have that perspective to a parent who sees their baby as a baby, even though they're now 18, 19 and wanting to enter the workforce?

SPEAKER_01 4:18

We start in the very beginning. When they start with us in pre-K, we talk about presuming competence. And when they enter us, the school system, when they are a three-year-old, we're already talking post-secondary outcomes. We don't want to make children for students that will limit them and what those outcomes might be. And for employers? I think it's very similar. We have to get out and share the good news, share the experience, share what our wealth of knowledge is. We need to show them. But by partnering with Project Search, that's something that we're doing. We're working hand in hand, showing what our students can do. Yes, they have a support of a job coach in the work environment, but the employers are seeing what the students are able to do. And then we build their capacity for understanding, and that just continues to grow. They then begin to seek out other opportunities that our students can do. They come to us with ideas and suggestions for, hey, could we try this? We see a need here, but is that something you would be willing to work with us on?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Oh, interesting. So almost by seeing is believing for the employer, and then they kind of reciprocate these opportunities that maybe you didn't know were there.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

In education, we call that modeling, right? We're modeling the way we want the outcome to look, right? This is what we can do. This is what we're able to show you. And then here's the product of what the student can do.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

And what in terms of etiquette? Because I think that it can be a part of the, maybe even part of the modeling, you know, because how you speak to someone says a lot about how you perceive them. And I think for all of us, not just people with disabilities, we tend to slip into the role of what is expected of us or perceived of us. That perception becomes reality even when it comes to our own identity. And I've seen people who talk to people with disabilities by saying, instead of saying their name, they'll say, call them buddy. Like all of a sudden everyone's buddy and they talk louder and slower and will push their wheelchair without permission. Things that maybe are not obvious to those who haven't spent time with others with disabilities, but that are really important for a successful employer-employee relationship. Do you help facilitate those etiquette discussions at all?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

We do. Something that we always teach is we talk in first person. A person that has a disability is a person first. Okay. And that is something that not everyone understands. In my department, in the exceptional student education department in the school district, that's something we teach teachers, paraprofessionals. We even have to help our parents come to understand that. So instead of my autistic son, my son with autism. Correct. Okay. Yes. And so that is something that Lisa and her team at GCE do is we're helping employers to understand the background knowledge that we already have so that it is a good experience, not only for our adult students, for their families who have entrusted us to grow their child's outcomes, but it also helps the employer to be able to be successful, right? The tools that they don't have, they're not able to use. So we want to help them to understand the things that we already know so that our students are set up for success.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Right. Because the employers may not even know to ask this question. They might not even know there is etiquette that is to be followed. And they would want someone to please tell us, please educate us. In fact, that leads me, Lisa, to my next question because when it comes to exceptional populations and how employers see them, there's often a difference between what is thought and what is said out loud because nobody wants to say the wrong thing, right? One of those things that is maybe thought but not said is liability. Could hiring this person put us at risk for an injury incident? Or, you know, could they possibly say something inappropriate to a customer? Or could their medical needs cause our insurance premiums to go up? In case there are future employers that would be participating in this program listening, can you address those specific concerns?

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Sure. We definitely have these conversations with employers within the Project Search model every day. So Project Search, as you know, is located in a business in the local community. And the first thing that we do is we provide the disability awareness training that Pam was referring to. And we're very transparent, very candid, and very open in those conversations. So those conversations are happening on site and then also with community-based employers. And we encourage the hard questions. We go in and we let them know this is a student who may have challenges. They may not be perfect, they may need additional training, they might not be able to learn exactly the way their coworker learns. And we have those open conversations and encourage them to ask the questions. If they don't ask the questions, because we know that typically they usually will come up at some point, we will bring up the question. So we will take those hard topics, those hard conversations, we'll initiate a back and forth, and we're just very transparent about that. And for employers that have not been exposed to working with a person with a disability, what we find is once they take an opportunity to give the person a chance, see them actually performing work in their place of business, it's a relationship from then on because they can see what the student can do or the adult can do. And that's the beauty of Project Search. It's giving that employer the opportunity to see the person with a disability in action to dispel all the myths and the misconceptions that employers may have. So we find there's very few, you know, limitations. They're not any different than hiring a person who doesn't have a disability. Often the accommodations that are provided benefit the coworker that's working next to them. So it's very generalized. So we're just very open, happy to come in and educate employers. We find that most employers are open to that conversation. And we just make sure that that stays a part of what we do day in and day out. We've been doing this for many, many years, but it has to continue to be done. It's not something that we talk about and forget about. So we uh reinitiate conversations with employers regularly on those hard topics.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

So give me an example on the hard topic of, well, what if they create like an injury liability? How do you address that? Is that depending on the job they're doing, depending on the individual, does it get that specific? Or is it as is this a case in which that question may expose kind of an accidental prejudice that, like, you know, this person is covered in the same way we're all covered from injury liability?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

So maybe we have a student who's in a wheelchair and we have an employer that's hesitant because of liability or not quite sure how they're gonna get the job done. It's gonna cost a lot to provide accommodations. We we typically will just go in and we will just run through, you know, their questions and concerns bit by bit. And there are no statistics that show that a person in a wheelchair has more liability cases than a person who doesn't come to work in a wheelchair. I'm not aware of any anyway. So we just kind of come in and we do advocate and come from the point of view that the person with a disability just works differently. They might learn differently. It's no different than someone who's maybe older that is walking and using a cane or a walker. It's just an aid that helps them perform to the best of their ability. So we just try to shut down those assumptions. Sometimes we might even ask, can we bring the student or the adult to your place of business and let them maneuver around the business and let you see? They do this in their regular life. They don't stay home and not go anywhere. They go to the mall, they go to church, they go to school, they work. So they know how to navigate. And we just try to reassure and advocate. I think we can.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

I think that's something that helps us in our situation is that the agreement we have with the GCE organization is we have a teacher present. They also have a job coach that is there to support our students who are learning these new positions, right? So we spend time with them in this new work environment. Let's say, for example, they're working out at the Hilton at the beach and they need somebody cutting in the kitchen, right? The student that uses a wheelchair to get around. So we go in, we set up the scene for the way that they can be successful. Do we need to have a lower table? How do we access getting around the workspace? How do we keep things clean? We do those things again back to modeling. We model, we show this is what we're gonna do. We troubleshoot. If it's not working for the employer, we go back to the table and say, okay, what would work? How could we make this where you would feel more comfortable? Or what could we do to help our student learn so that they could be successful in your environment?

SPEAKER_02 13:54

I love that it's like possibility-oriented. What needs to be possible to make this work? Because that's such a great way of thinking for everyone, because it allows the employer to get what they need and the student to get what they want also.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And if I could, I would say it also is very individualized. It's not one size fits all. So whatever the student needs, the support and the accommodations are provided based on that individual need. So what someone needs in a wheelchair, if they're in a wheelchair, might be different than someone else who is also in a wheelchair.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

I love the fact that there's a coach, you know, that there's like a third party. So is that the same person that would help the employer be reminded of what they are allowed to ask in an interview and what they are not allowed to ask in an interview? It's fun that you ask that. I love that you think that's fun.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

We do because I appreciate it. We do what we call mock interviews, right? So we work with employers to develop appropriate questions or things that they would ask our students. We work with our students with appropriate answers, how they would respond. We train them the appropriate way to come to an interview, the way to dress, the way to look, the way to make eye contact. For some of our students with disabilities, making eye contact is a difficult thing for them to do. We even have some of our employers who will set up and do these mock interviews with us. Okay. We have some really collaborative groups who really want our students to be successful.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

I love this so much because this is not just about pairing someone who needs a job with someone who needs a worker. This is think about how that employer, that interviewer's brain would be changed forever by understanding how to view people with disabilities as competent and how to with competence, right? With competence, absolutely, and to be able to communicate back and forth. Like you're you're literally changing pockets of the community.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

And by our employers doing that with us, they notice some of the struggles, right? We tell our students all the time, as well as the employers, I've had to interview for a job before. It wasn't that easy, but you can do it. You know, summon up the strength, go in there, look them in the eye, and do the best that you can.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Do you also help the person getting interviewed understand what legally is not allowed to be asked? Because, like for a person with Down syndrome, for example, one of the features of that condition is that you're an incredible people pleaser, right? And that can be very sticky in an interview situation or even in an you're already employed because you want to please your employer and that can make you more vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

And in our situation, the way we're working is we typically come up with the questions together and they're agreed upon. Okay. By the nature of doing this, some of that is just known. It's understood. Now, when we're not available, we're hoping that what we've taught transfers into the other workspaces, right? Something that we may not be in control of, but we think by osmosis, right? They come to know and understand. We've had such success that you you mentioned something earlier. Our employers are willing to try new things because of the experiences that they've had. Okay. For example, at Baptist Hospital, that's one of the places that we have GCE and Project Search. We have, and I don't ever say it right, it's the blood lab, phlebotomy. Phlebotomy. Yes. It's always a fun, it's a big old word, but in the blood lab, they needed someone to be a carrier that would run to the different floors and pick up these specimens and take them to the different locations within the hospital. It's not a internship that we had tried before. It was a need. Our job coaches and our teachers figured it out. There was lots of trial and error. Let's figure out the right way to do this. And it's been a successful internship there at the hospital. In fact, I was there one day, and the gentleman that was working with our student told me that he's one of the sharpest young men that's worked with him before. He said he's on time. He pays great attention to detail. He said, if all of my employees could pay this attention to detail, especially with important work like lab work, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Medical error is like the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S. So we need people who pay close attention to detail to be a part of the team.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Correct. So it's the job coach and the teacher and the team at the hospital who came up with this opportunity that met the need of all three.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

I love that. Okay, so who are some of the other employers that are participating in this partnership?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

So right now we have five locations: Santa Rosa Medical Center, Baptist Hospital, Gulf Breeze Hospital, Innes Free Hilton, Penskola Beach, and Innisfree Hilton Garden Inn in Fort Walton Beach. So those are our host businesses that are part of the program. Then Vocational Rehabilitation is our funder of the program. Agency for Persons with Disabilities is a long-term support state system that we work closely with and our businesses, GCE, and of course the school districts. We're in three different school districts: Oak Loosa, Escambia, and Santa Rosa County. I love that it's such a wide reach.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

I didn't expect the list to be that long. We've talked a little bit about the employer's reaction. What's been the parent reaction to these partnerships?

SPEAKER_00 19:27

So from our perspective, Project Search is a program that is very conducive to parent engagement. Parents are heavily involved. We have monthly employment planning meetings that parents show up for, in addition to the IEP meetings that Pam and her team are hosting. We have lots of different events that parents are engaged and participating in. Usually we see them come in with some hesitancy, some concern, not quite sure what this is all about. Is this going to work? They're worried about safety, having them in a new environment and things of that sort. At the end, it is so obvious that it has made a tremendous difference in the life of the student, not only at the business and for them, but at home. We have parents tell us all the time what a difference it has made in how they interact and things that they do at home. It impacts them. It's a holistic impact. And parents see that and they love it. Word gets around, you know, we start hearing other parents, they hear that and they start reaching out. So we've been very fortunate. The students that the school district sends our way for the program, the parents are very, very supportive and very engaged.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Alexa's right. There is a little bit of fear of the unknown in the beginning. And I think as a parent, whether we have a student with a disability or a child who's a regular everyday student, we all are concerned about our student and what they're doing on a daily basis. But when you have a student that has a disability, there's a little bit more at stake. You worry about are they in a safe place? Are they going to be able to communicate their needs? Are they going to be looked after? They're now between 18 and 22, so they're an adult. Are they going to be in a situation that they're still going to be protected? All right. And that is something that Project Search and the team there and the school district, we work really hard. We also work with our students to help them understand how to live hopefully one day independently and safely, right? We want them to be able to have the highest quality of life that they can. Many of them will go on and live independently, right? And these opportunities that we're providing them for employee employment is what gives them the financial stability to be able to do some of those things. But we talk to them, we teach them you have to be at the bus at this time, you have to be dressed in your uniform. And if you don't have your net that goes on your on your hair, then you may not be able to work. And if you're not able to work, how are you going to collect a paycheck? One of the things we teach them is banking. How do you have a checking account? Do you have a savings account? Do you go to a credit union or do you go to a a regular commercial bank? This is the amount of money you need to do these things. How are you going to manage that money? They practice clocking in in the hours that they get. They have employee reviews where the employers are providing critique of their work. They're learning that sometimes criticism is corrective criticism is not always fun, but we can grow and learn from it. And what our response to that is extremely important. How do we respond when someone is trying to reteach us the correct way to do something?

SPEAKER_02 22:38

I'm sure there's parents listening who are either wanting to be a part of this referral process of like, I have a friend, I have a neighbor, I have a relative who has a child with a disability who is approaching this age and they're they're asking that big what now question, or they themselves are someone who might qualify to be a part of this program. What does the enrollment process look like?

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Okay, so any student that has a IEP, an individualized education plan, whether they're in Escambia County, Santa Rosa County, Okaloosa, it's a state of Florida federal government type thing. Any student that has an IEP can defer their diploma. They can graduate from high school, defer their diploma, which means we keep their diploma. We allow them to then stay with us for those the 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 school years. Okay. If you have an IEP, you're eligible to participate in these programs. So that means you delay your graduation until later. What is that? Okay, so you uh students who defer their diploma, they actually walk. They have earned their diploma, they have met the requirements for graduation. But in in our system, in order to be able to continue to support them, there has to be an educational need. So we let them walk, they celebrate with their family, they take all the pictures, they turn their tassel at the end of the night, but but we keep the diploma. They then come to our program, they continue to whatever whichever one of the arms of the district extension program they're participating in, whether it's Project Search or maybe it's a district extended program that looks a little bit different. We provide them with their educational needs, right? At any time in those years, they can decide they're ready to go to work. And if they have employment, they leave us, they ask for their diploma, we give them their diploma. We have a student right now at Project Search at Baptist that's about to leave us to go start his job. We're never sad when they say, Hey, I've gotten a job. It's time for me to say goodbye. We give our big hugs, we give them their diploma and wish them the best possible outcome. It sounds like almost like a second graduation. It is a second graduation. I will tell you that our organizations, both Baptist and Innis Free, they celebrate our Project Search students really big. They hold a fantastic luncheon, and the employers who are working with the students come, they give awards to students, give awards to them. They are all referring to each other by name. They have good, friendly relationships, lots of tears. Parents are very pleased to see the progress that their student has made over the course of time.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Oh my gosh. I can only imagine what that would feel like as a parent just to see your child bloom in that way and to have other people love your baby. You know what I mean? Because that I think must be a part of that parental worry is will people see in him what I see in him, you know, and to be able to have like this whole other community of people that see potential and gifts that might be otherwise overlooked. So this has been such an amazing conversation. I'm gonna link everything in the show notes, but can you just tell the people oh, like if if they are wanting to maybe have their place of work participate, what do they do? And if they have a family member who wants to participate, what do they do? Like what's the next where where do they go on the internet?

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Okay, so let me talk first about how they get connected, and then I'll let Lisa talk about businesses, how they can get connected. So if you're interested in participating in the district extended program, you can start with me. My contact information is on our district webpage. In order to learn more information, we're a phone call away, we're an email away, we're happy to talk to parents, even if they're just looking for basic information early on. We do our very best to start this conversation with families in the very beginning. Because remember, I said we talk about post-secondary outcomes. This is where we want our students to be when they're ready to leave us, prepared to have a wonderful life independent of the school system.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Okay, so where can the employers go who are like, oh my gosh, yes, this is such a creative and wonderful answer for filling a need?

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Perfect timing because we currently are engaging in the placement process for the current students that are graduating at the end of May. So we are definitely reaching out and talking to employers. So if there is an employer that might be interested in interviewing and giving one of our students an opportunity, they can, as Pam said, look at the website, the GCE.org website, which is where my contact information is located. Or if you include that, they can just reach out to me directly and we'll get them connected. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

We're willing to have these conversations at any time, always.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

I think just knowing that the human connection is there for a parent or an employer, that it's as easy as talking to a real person. We are all a little fatigued with online forms that are clunky and don't work. So this is such a breath of fresh air on so many levels. Thank you, ladies.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Thank you. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Muscania County Public Schools.