Ep 96 | Smart & Safe Internet Use

SPEAKER_01 0:00

With the parents, we're we're in the process of developing a symposium, a cybersecurity awareness symposium that will partner with our local law enforcement, our local media providers to make a very large presence in the community so that we can bring parents in and the parents can hear the harsh realities and understand not only the dangers, but the responsibilities that they have with helping their kids through this era of social media as well as everything else that goes along with internet use.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambi County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. Smartphones, smart TVs, smart refrigerators. Information is moving at the speed of technology. And our kids are blurring it all. But how do we keep them safe? My next guest is the Information Systems Security Manager for Scambia County Public Schools. And today he's going to give insights into how we can support smart internet use for our kids. Passionate Pensacolian, Pine Forest High School graduate, high-tech harbinger Brian Johnson. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Well, thanks for the intro. It's an impressive intro.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

So I have to tell you this mini story. I dropped my phone a few days ago and I couldn't see my screen. It was, it was terrible. It looked like it had ink all over the front. I didn't realize how frequently in my day-to-day that I grabbed my phone until I had three days without it. Right. And I just realized, oh my gosh, we are so interfaced with our Wi-Fi. And so that got me thinking, how possible is it that always being connected to the internet as an adult could maybe cloud our vision for how we need to set up boundaries for our kids in the use of internet?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Absolutely. And it and I think we all are. I mean, it's a the society we live in, it's we're 24-7. And I say that all the time. Hey, my phone's on 24-7. Don't feel bad about calling me. And that's that's a good and bad thing. It keeps us connected. But especially the generation, the the students that we're getting in elementary school and some of our middle school, that generation has never been disconnected from a device. They that's a normalcy to them. And it's not a bad thing. I mean, we educate kids, we give them a Chromebook. We've got a lot of protections in the background, protecting them on the Chromebook. But that generation that's never been disconnected, it's tough for them to understand some of those boundaries that that may be affecting the kids. Um that may have affected them and they just didn't realize that you some of those effects. You know what I mean? The the internet's not the same as it was ten years ago. When when COVID rolled around, kids were not in school. They were at home. And a lot of what I do from a security manager standpoint, we inter interlace with a lot of our local law enforcement partners, and we call them partners because that's exactly what they are. But during that during COVID, it was a we saw a huge uptick in the crimes against children. So the the internet from ten years ago is not the same as it is today. And that that that parent that grew up with that technology, they don't see any issue with it.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, because you remember Charlie bit my finger on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

That's the internet we know and love. And so the idea of it being a a mostly nefarious playground is just not really in our in our mind at all.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Absolutely. Well, and and and and that's not a bad thing that parents try not to to get on that, but there are so many things out there. And it's if they have the right measures in place, it's not a bad place. You know, the privacy settings and and social media, they've got to understand those. If if they're truly making that decision that their kids on social media, then they need to understand those privacy concerns. You know, they just the the act the the cyberbullying, the harassment that can come if they're not. They just need to understand what their kids are engaged in. What app not just even social media, but even apps. You know, there's certain apps out there that let's say they're not US-based apps. Well, if there becomes a criminal aspect to it, just the subpoena power to to chase an issue down, it can be a can be a a hurdle. So that that we'll go back to the the the parent that's always been connected. They don't see an issue with handing that iPad to little Johnny or little Susie and saying, here, just go go be entertained. And what we want is we we want we want those parents to understand those concerns and understand that yes, we we want them to be connected with technology. That's where we are in society, and that's how they learn. Majority of the kids learn through technology. We just want to make sure they understand some of those those stressors that the kids have, as well as the the privacy concerns that come out.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I mean, that's a that's a lot right there. Because like we we who grew up in the analog, we still think of the world in a very linear way. Linear television, linear radio, linear technology, right? So once someone from my generation learns something about the internet, we're like, look at us, check, all done. Right. And we're not thinking, okay, yes, you put that security filter on your kid's phone today, but tomorrow, the new app that they downloaded has a chat feature that, you know, some bad guy can come and, you know, traffic your kid because it's it's it's dynamic, it's not linear.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Absolutely. Well, and something as simple as is kids taking pictures and and doing taking YouTube. YouTube's a super popular piece with kids. Parents think that's very innocent. And it can be if it's done properly. We we will get into what we're doing with students, but we talk about when we get in front of kids, you know, talk about scenarios. What if what if you're taking a video of you and your friends playing a game in the front yard? Well, before you post it, you realize in the background is your street address on your house, and then you can see in the reflection of the window, you see the address, the the street sign. You know, that's if that's publicly posted, then everybody knows where you live. They've got your address and the and the actual street. So little things, and especially with with taking pictures, making sure that the location's turned off. Something as simple as that is huge. Uh the metadata that comes from a photo that's wide open, you can see obviously date, time, location, all the aperture, everything about that image, but the biggest thing is that location. If you don't have location turned off for your photos for your camera, then they share that out. Whoever they share it with, they get all that metadata.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

So when to just to clarify, so when you say the location off, are you talking about the location on the phone?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Okay, so the whole phone needs to have location off. So if you know, if grandma uses Yeah, and certainly you can do it by app.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

So obviously, we you know, the family's app, there's a bunch of apps that the location is very good. I mean, I've got a 20-year-old, we still know where he's at. No, if he's got it wherever he is, his phone, we know where he's at. But you can turn the the location awareness off per app. So you just even on the social media apps, that may not be a good thing to be sharing location with.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And a lot of them when you download them, you know, you have to agree to all these terms. I just did it because as I said, I broke my phone and had to literally set this one up last night. And and I was like, oh no, no, no, I don't, no, I don't want any of these permissions to be running in the background. But it's probably challenging for a parent to keep track of all of the ways that their kid could be potentially at risk. So I would do want to talk about what you're doing with your team and the school and the students, but right off the bat, I can just feel the listener who's a parent going, okay, yeah, but what do I do? Right. What can a parent do? You've already pointed out that awareness is the first underlying.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yeah, nothing. And we and we could I could sit here and name a hundred different apps that help. I'll say that nothing replaces adult supervision. That is huge. But we also realize that the kids aren't around. They're at school, they're out in the play, at playgrounds. There definitely are apps out there. I won't specifically go into certain apps, but there's apps out there that help you control, hey, what's on the phone and just see. There's big stressors that go with it. And we certainly get it. You know, when when you and I were in school, and I'm much older than you, but when we were in school, the the peer pressure was there no matter what it was, whether it was, man, he's got the cool shoes and look at that beeper. Right. And and now it's it's even we see it in our middle school age kids, especially, is oh man, it they're on social media, they're they're on Facebook, they're on Twitter, they're on TikTok, or probably not on Facebook, that's as they tell me all the time. That's for old people. Of course, I'm on Facebook, but the the social all those different social media apps and the stressors that come with it are just unbelievable. And that's the the biggest piece of that is the parents just need to understand that because little Susie's got it doesn't necessarily mean that your child needs it. And in helping them understand that, because it is, it's peer pressure. There is a balance there from a parent standpoint, in my opinion, that if if that's what you agree to, then obviously go we go back to all those privacy settings that are out there. And we have resources on our district website under the families tab. We're developing a page that's got a lot of curriculum for parents that will help them through not necessarily the specifics of social media, because we want to be careful not to get into this app works, that app works, because there's so many out there. Work with your carriers, your cell phone carriers, Verizons, ATTs, all your cell phone carriers have features that will help parents, so that if if you as Meredith would be as my daughter or son, then you see what's going on, you see a text message, you see a every social media post, no different than looking at the internet.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Like it mirrors it onto your phone.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yep. So if if you know my son's texting, then he understands that hey, until you reach a certain age, I need to see what you guys are texting. It's not because I'm trying to get into your privacy or get into your private time, but we want to make sure that A, they're being responsible, and B, that they don't cross that line with somebody they may not know. There's so many, so many options out there that that kids can get in place where people pray, unfortunately. Yeah. YouTube, I always say everybody thinks YouTube is a safe place, and it is. But if you don't have those controls in place and there's open comments, then a simple video can lead to obviously things we we certainly don't want kids to be uh involved in.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Because again, going back to the 90s, it was the white van, right? We were like beware of the white kidnapper van. They have puppies and candy, and you should just say no and run. And now there's no white van. I mean, children can be trafficked virtually by a predator who says, Oh, send me a picture and I'll send you points in your game.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

And your kid never left the house, they don't know any better because they're a kid, and yet, you know, it it has it has happened.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah, and we and we see it time to time with parents that would come forward for help. And that if your child sh all of a sudden starts getting stuff in the mail, let's see an Amazon package, or they're starting to get things that how are they paying for that? Maybe they're not paying for that. Maybe they've met somebody online and that person is uh more or less using them as a ability to draw them closer. Those are those some of the big things that we want parents to make sure they're tuned into. It's it is a I won't say a big problem. It is a problem though.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Um So it sounds like supervision in many forms is key. Using technology to supervise. I have a friend who will take her son's phone every night and goes through it. Someone else told me that there's a calculator app that isn't a calculator app, and they should always check that calculator app.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yeah, and the calculator app's kind of I won't say a thing of the past because it's still there. But there's other apps that may look like something else, may look like a you know, a simple, innocent app. Uh, but then when you go into it, it's something totally different. And that's mode, that's made to be deceptive for the kids that are wanting to get in areas they know they shouldn't. So I and I totally agree. It nothing replaces that adult supervision, whether it's through technology. But the the and I won't even say nightly phone checks, just random. I think that is random phone checks from a parent. That's that's so impactful because little Johnny and little Susie, they don't know when mom or dad's gonna ask for it. Just, hey buddy, let me see your phone. There's just I just want to chat. I haven't looked at it late lately. Let me just take a look and see. Um, make sure everything's going good. Make sure you don't have any stressors in there that's you know, that that you don't, you're not cap you're not you're not compar you're not ready to deal with. You don't have those tool sets yet to to deal with the stressors that's sitting in front of you.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

The developmental piece of this is such a a monster. It is. Right? Because just as you said, hey little Johnny, let me have your phone. I thought, oh God, that's gonna be a fight.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Right? And so how how do you suggest parents tackle the developmental brain part of it? Because as we know, social media sites are modeled after gambling uh slot machines.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

And so they are it's not a character flaw with your kid, it's not a character flaw from adults. No way since we're on the topic, it's just how it's plain and simple designed.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Absolutely. Well, and and there's studies out there that show that direct correlation between excessive social media use, or even I would even go as far as excessive screen time. It shows that in that increased anxiety, that in that increased depression, the direct correlation between the two, and even body image issues, you know, that and I'm sure we we laugh about it all the time. You see these people post that they're they're living this perfect life, you know, this perfect family, everything's perfect. There's no way they're as perfect as they deploy on social media. But our kids aren't prepared to laugh at that and say, oh, there's no way. They see their friends, they've got this, they're doing this, they're doing that. And if they're not they don't have the tool set to to deal with that, it increases that anxiety, it increases that depression, the body image issues become become real.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Well, they're in their myelin stage, right? Where the brain is super squishy. Right. And their prefrontal cortex hasn't even grown in.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Now you're you're you're getting in an area. I'm an IT guy. Nothing. But but you're they have squishy brains.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Right. And so, yeah, their brains aren't fully formed yet. So, you know, even you know, God bless the parents who are trying to give their kids the tools and the techniques to deal with the constant, you know, photo-edited pictures and filters, absolutely. It's it's it's there's no amount of tools that can overcome the squishy brain.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Absolutely. Well, and and I would and this is a very harsh comparison, and and some would probably even criticize for making this comparison. But I I compare that cell phone, we've all got cell phones in our pockets. I compare that cell phone, let's say, to a firearm, which is a everybody thinks, what in the heck are you comparing the two? But it's it's very real. Uh you're not gonna hand an elementary age kid a firearm and oh, by the way, here here's the ammunition for that firearm, without teaching them, teaching them the safety pieces of that firearm. It's no different with than a phone. Uh, and I I'm very passionate about that. I think that the the phone's a powerful tool. It's a powerful educational tool. Uh, years ago, we actually used them before we had devices in every kid's hand. We would allow students to bring personal devices. Um, now that we have devices in every hand, we we don't anymore because of the issues that come with it. But they've got to have that tool set to understand that that device in their hand, how powerful it is and how dangerous it can be if not not used properly.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

So, what is the Scambia County Public Schools doing to help parents help their kids? And what are they doing to help directly educate the kids? I'm sure it's it's a unified effort.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

It is. So uh in in of course, uh Mr. Leonard, uh wonderful superintendent, he's he's you've uh definitely a united front on what we're doing um with the students in the classroom uh as well as the parents. The the big piece, I'll start with the students. Actually, let me start with the parents because the students will probably get sideways in it because it's a lot of fun. But with the parents, we're we're in the process of developing a symposium, a cybersecurity awareness symposium that will partner with our local law enforcement, our local media providers to make a very large presence in the community so that we can bring parents in and the parents can hear the harsh realities and understand not only the dangers, but the responsibilities that they have with helping their kids through this era of social media as well as everything else that goes along with with internet use. We're developing that hopefully this coming fall. We will roll that out. We'll roll it out in in a multiple area so that we can get as many parents to it as we can. And there'll be a lot more coming on that. We're we're excited about that. That's been in the works for a while, and we'll get some more information out there. But we also have parent resources on our website. If you know on our website under the family tab, there's resources there, and there's a lot more in the development stage as well for the families. From the student standpoint, um, as you and I spoke earlier, I'm I'm super passionate about uh you know, I grew up in this community, born and raised in Pensacola and been with the district quite a while. And this piece is really passionate for me as far as getting to our students, getting to them young. We have a program we started two years ago where we go into the elementary schools with our partners. We use our law enforcement partners, the Scamie County Sheriff's Department, Pensacola Police Department, uh and Florida Department of Law Enforcement. And we go in and just have a very candid conversation, very casual conversation about cybersecurity awareness. It revolves around some cartoon characters that talk about cyberbullying. They we talk about different awareness pieces and we give them some scenarios and they interact. Um, but we can't do that with just us. An IT professional standing up there, but I can't I can't hold their attention. Law enforcement holds their attention pretty well because they respect uh that authority. But we also bring in uh canines, and we're very, very fortunate uh and very blessed in this community to um to be the first um community to have an FDLE electronic detection canine. Her name is Maple, and we're a little upset she's no longer in our community, she's just got transferred to Jacksonville, and I say she, her handler, Stephanie Cassidy. But when we started this program, we went to every single elementary school and we started with grades three through five. Because my original passion and and thought is that if we can get these kids early, it's let's let's get this message early, then hopefully we can impact, even if we impact a tenth of that population, then we've made a difference. Once they get in middle school and high school, it's hard to turn that that behavior. But in the elementary school, it I think we can if we can make that difference, at least plant that little little seed in that third, fourth, or fifth grade mind, then hopefully we can turn that. So we we do we use the canine as a draw. We it ties them in. They love petting the canine. We do a little demo so that they can see what she does and what she was doing, and we that she actually has a replacement in in Pensacola at the Pensacola office with FDLE, and PPD has electronic detection canine. And the canine is used just for that, just what it sounds like, detecting electronic devices, whether that's a cell phone, whether it's a computer, a thumb drive, a micro SD the size of your thumbnail. And nine times out of ten, they're using this for crimes against children. So what better tool to bring in? We don't get into why she's there, what she does. We we don't talk about the crimes against children. We just talk about she helps find things that bad guys hide. But in reality, she is that canine or an electronic detection canine is the base of a lot of those as far as the actual crimes against children. So the the kids love her, absolutely, and and even the the PPD's got uh a lag. Ab, he is just an absolute amazing dog. And the sheriff's department, they bring their K9s as well. And it just ties that program together. So we've we that we did that two years ago, and this past year we had a little bit smaller program, but so circled back on some of the schools we felt like we need a little more exposure in. And then this coming year we'll go back and do a full program in the element. And we do that in October, that's Cybersecurity Awareness Month. So we tie that around Cybersecurity Awareness Month.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Please tell me, you're gonna bring the electronic detecting canines to Podcast Tapalooza next year.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Absolutely. Okay, good, good, good, good. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

You mentioned behavior and you're talking about, I think you said third graders. Are you talking about cyberbullying behavior when you say behavior?

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Sure, absolutely. All behavior, all electronic I mean, you Meredith, you would be shocked if you walked in I must say any of our elementary schools, but at the amount of I would say even second graders and beyond that have phones in their pocket. That it it it blows my mind. Just I can't imagine getting And they're all allowed to bring their phones to school? Well, by by statute they are. We we cannot prevent that. But the you know obviously every school can can limit what use they have of them. But it blows my mind that they have that access, and most of them are smartphones. Most of them are iPhones or galaxies. I mean, some of them nicer phones than I have. I mean, it it blows my mind. So yes, so those behaviors what we're trying to do is is make sure they understand that, hey, you you've you've got little things that how you talk to people online is no different than how you would talk to them in person. So many people hide behind the screen and and uh and talk different than they would in person. So we we try to to make certain that those behaviors are are good behaviors, good cyber awareness and and cyber digital citizenship or of what they've they they display it was while we've got them in in school and hopefully take that home.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I like the digital citizenship. For parents that have kids that are older than third grade, older, I think you said third through fifth, and then it does become a little bit more difficult to correct those behaviors as they get older. You know, the parents listening to this podcast have kids that range in many ages. How do you suggest kids parents encourage good behavior in the area of cyber communication? Because no one wants a kid who's a bully, right? How do you tell if your kid's a bully? But also, how as a parent do you help your kid handle bullying?

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Absolutely, just open communication. That that is the biggest piece from from a parent standpoint, so that maybe that child would come to you and go, hey, yeah, I'm uncomfortable with how this guy's you know messaging me and in social media or even email, so that maybe they would come to them. Um and and then it's no different than personal per personal dealing with personal situations face to face, um, but they tend to escalate much quicker digitally because they can hide behind that email. So we we put the reach some resources out there for parents. Common sense media is a is a piece that we use. Matter of fact, we've got some schools that are common sense schools. I know Global Elementary, sure would, those two come to mind that they subscribe to the curriculum. And I say subscribe, they push the curriculum out per grade level. And Common Sense Media actually has curriculum all the way up through twelfth grade. So that is that's a resource that parents can definitely look at. And there's there's professional things out there that'll help them. You know, the mental health piece really escalates when it becomes it gets into secondary in our middle and high schools. And by no means am I a mental health specialist. We've got a wonderful student service team that that's very versed in that. And and they're they're a good resource. So if a parent's struggling with some of that, come let the school be a resource for them. I mean, we've there's a lot of resources that we provide, and they're and they're united as far as that message from the from the digital side of it as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

I like that you're pointing out that there are resources, there is support. I think there's such a a temptation for a parent who grew up without all of this to think, oh my gosh, my child is defective because pictures on the internet make them sad. Absolutely. It's not quite like that because of all of the developmental brain stuff we talked about and the stuff that, you know, is always changing, always evolving. So it's nice that both the tech department of the school system and the mental health department can offer those resources so that a parent doesn't feel overwhelmed or discouraged that they have somehow failed.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Sure. And it and it's it's a trend nationwide. This isn't an ischamia county situation. Right. That's not an ischamia public schools situation. I mean, it's a global thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

I mean, they were dealing with internet addiction, device addiction in one of the Asian countries, I want to say, 15, 20 years ago. Sure. And I remember watching videos of the kids with devices and their heads down walking around like a you know, metropolitan area thinking, what is wrong with them? And now we're all doing it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Exactly. So but the resources are there's a many more resources than we had, I'm gonna say 10 or fifty even 10 or 15 years ago in our schools, just because I think we're more educated from from the the effects of of some of the some of the technology from social media to to to that side.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Well, to be fair, it's a lot of work to keep up with. So I'm so glad that you and your department are working to make those resources readily available for parents because you know, parents they got a lot going on.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Absolutely. Well, and again, it the parent grew up with it. They had some of the same struggles, they just didn't realize they had some of those same struggles. So we were at a very unique time when it comes to a parent and some of the responsibilities and the you know, my parents didn't have that, they didn't have to have that responsibility of worrying about what cell phone was in your pocket and worried what you were looking at and were you know, worrying the the side effects of what you were looking at. We we haven't got into we'd and we probably won't get into some of those effects, but I mean there's there's content out on that internet that's so available that can absolutely do major damage to adolescents. And of course I'm not I'm not the person to talk to that, but I I certainly have seen the studies and and see those damages that come from some of that online stuff that they get into, they shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah, it's real. Just because it's not able to be touched doesn't mean that it that it's not a real thing. Absolutely. Well, as we wrap up, can you share one more time where parents can find the resources that are on the website? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

So if you the families tab on the school district website, there's some digital resources there that will help them. And we're we're getting ready to launch a page that will pull all the the lessons and and the resources into one area that really will help them. But probably by the time this is launched, it will be there, but it'll be under the families tab.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Well, thank you so much. Thank you for all the work that you're doing, and I look forward to even more resources in that symposium coming up.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Absolutely. We will we'll do another podcast and try to get uh one of the electronic detection canines in and some of our other partners.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Oh, I would love that so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Absolutely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambie County Public School.