Ep 73 | How Do We Help Grieving Kids?

SPEAKER_01 0:00

By being able to help kids see things like that too, it uh it helps them learn to know that they can get through what they're going through. But it's things like that too, that that's what teachers need to be aware of and what what you know parents need to be aware of. Grief doesn't look like just being sad. And a lot of times teachers uh don't know that there's a grieving student in their classroom, but they see that they can't concentrate, or they're goofing off in class, or they're grades are dropping. Right? These are all things that happen as a result of unsupported grief that's being held in.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambi County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. Dealing with loss is never easy. The emotional blow plus the logistical to-do list can leave any parent in survival mode. You do your best to be strong and maintain a routine for the kids, but sometimes it's the routine that fails our also grieving children. Where do you find the support you need for your grieving child? My next guest is the regional director of Valerie's House, a Pensacola organization providing specialized grief support for children. Today she's going to share how their approach is unique, what grief in children looks like, and her own story of healing. Relationship builder, champion for children, Krista Brandt. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Thank you. There, your your intro just, I mean, reminded me a lot of the caregivers in our in our program. It's exactly what they're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah, I think it's important work. And I was, as I was thinking about grief in kids, I was thinking, oh, it's not really existing in a vacuum, you know, and unresolved grief is probably one of those things that can be passed on very easily because if a parent has unresolved grief, then that's their miscalibrated baseline, basically. And so they might not even see the grief going on in their kids. So that's kind of where I wanted to start us is sometimes when we have things that are unresolved within ourselves and we're quote unquote fine. Right. I'm fine, everything's fine. Right. Then we're like, you're fine too, you know? And we we kind of, it's like, well, I had to walk uphill both ways to school in the snow with no shoes. You can too. And it it just doesn't give anything to that next generation. So what happens as a result of unresolved grief in kids?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah, well, a a number, a number of things. And you know, I'll just start with the fact that grief is very individual. And I think society still kind of in general thinks that grief is sadness. And that's just only one emotion or feeling that is actually grief, right? There are so many, many different emotions. And when you're talking about unsupported grief, right? Unbeing unsupported and really just being able to identify what are all of those emotions and why am I feeling this way, and you know, being able to work through those and get the support, if you don't, you know, many don't realize that unsupported grief is the root cause of so much in society. And a lot with kids, it starts with behavior in school or loss of concentration, and then you see your grades drop, right? And then when your grades drop, then you start to get in trouble and or you're having you can't concentrate. So there are you're deemed as a troublemaker or a bad student, and and things like that then start to transpire because people are putting a label on you, right? And then, you know, from there can lead to risk-taking behavior because you're already deemed a troublemaker, so you might as well. And then the next thing you know, you know, you're dipping into drugs and alcohol as coping mechanisms, and you become an early adult who's, you know, addicted to alcohol or drugs, or, you know, even worse than that, you become incarcerated or in in juvie. And these are all the type things that would happen and can happen, and we see happen more often with kids who are grieving. And so, you know, if those kids go unsupported and they grow up to be adults, the likelihood of them being able to be productive in society and productive parents and productive friends and family members, you know, diminishes.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

You said it's some of the things that you've been seeing in your organization. If a kid has had unsupported grief for, I don't know, let's say 10 years, right? Something happened when they're real little. Is it possible to give them the support that late and still see a turnaround?

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Oh, absolutely. So a great success story just on that is the work that we do with Pace Center for Girls. The majority of our programs are run out of our location on Gadston Street, which is right, we're right behind Krispy Kreme. So everybody knows where that is on 9th Avenue. It's like the oldest Krispy Kreme in the region.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

I have no idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Of course not. But we also do Meet the Kids Where They Are programs. And um, one of our most successful ones is at the Pace Center for Girls, right? And Pace Center for Girls are often kind of they that is their last resort. They've already been tried multiple schools, they've been kicked out of them, they have behavior problems, they come from backgrounds with a lot of tragedy. But a lot of times, I mean, every child at Pace Center for Girls has experienced loss. We know that I mean 50% of them have experienced the loss of a close family member, like a parent or a sibling or a cousin, right? Somebody very close to them. And that kicked off just a wave of tragedies. But now that we're doing these groups there and what the the girls are sharing with uh the leadership there at Pace Center, as well as with our our staff who um coordinates with the counselors to run them, is that one, they didn't realize how much grief was impacting them all around because they too thought grief was just supposed to be sadness, right? It's not anger and it doesn't come out as behaviors, and that they didn't talk about it. And so now they are um they want to be in the program full full time. They are so happy just to be able to open up and talk to others, but connect with other kids, you know, in their school and in their environment who've also gone through loss so that they can support each other. And these are things that are like five, 10 years after, you know, oftentimes. So, you know, there's never, it's never too late. Right. And the more you can understand about what grief looks like in yourself or in your child, the quicker you can be able to give them the resources they need to, you know, go on to live productive lives and and know that grief and loss that they've gone through doesn't have to limit their dreams.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Well, you said something about it's peer-to-peer, it's the kids helping the other kids and connecting with the other kids. What is it about the peer-to-peer model that helps kids really overcome the stuck points for them that are caused by their loss?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah. When my mom died when I was 11, and I didn't know anybody else who was going through what I was going through, and I didn't understand anything that I was going through, and I thought I was fine to get back, you know, well, I'm not crying, so I'm obviously fine, which I wasn't because uh we didn't understand all the facets of of grief, right? And it's messy and it's complex. But I didn't know anybody else who was going through what I was going through. And so that isolation makes it really difficult to process things in a manner that is healthy. And you have your friends who think that they're doing the right thing by not bringing up that your mom died, right? So then it starts to be this awkward elephant in the room all the time of, well, ask your mom if you can do this, or you know, well, we're gonna do this for Mother's Day, and then the oh, I didn't, you know, I didn't mean to say that. So you start to feel disconnected from your immediate group of friends and and isolated and that something's wrong with you and that you're different. And so when you bring the kids together and you they can connect with somebody else who, oh yeah, my my dad died of suicide too, you know, or they can talk about their experiences at the funeral, and they can talk about the experiences at at home. You know, most kids are not going to open up to their caregiver about how they're feeling, one, because they don't understand it, and two, because it's awkward, or they want to be the strong siblings, so they don't bring it up, and they don't want to make mom or or dad or the other siblings upset, so they don't bring it up. That is what is so powerful about bringing kids together and letting them know that they don't have to grieve alone and that there's others out there who understand what they're going through, and their faces light up in joy, even though they're talking about something that is so tragic and difficult. But when they can turn to their peer and their buddy who they are just playing with on the, you know, on the playground out back and say, Oh, yeah, I understand. You know, my mom was sick for a long time too. Or, yeah, my dad died in a car accident. Or, you know, my dad also died of overdose, and that's not a bad thing to say here at Valerie's house, right? There's, you know, stigma around that, and there's a lot of overdose happening right now in our our community, and people feel embarrassed that there's a stigma around that, so they don't want to share how they died. But when we bring them together and at Valerie's house, they know that it's okay and it's unfortunately normal, but there are other people who are who understand what they're going through. And that's really the power of being able to help them connect and build bonds and they support each other through their tragedy. And then they can share ways to deal with how they're feeling in a manner that is healthy versus some of the unhealthy coping mechanisms that you know I kind of touched on, and certainly ones that I excelled at when I was younger.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

How old were you when you finally got here to be our counseling?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

I honestly didn't even start processing grief myself until a decade after my mom died. So it took going through high school and college and getting out and trying to, you know, start to be an adult until I really realized and was ready to work on that. Um and at that time, so I was in my early 20s in Atlanta, I there's an organization that was starting in Atlanta with this model, this peer-to-peer support model. I signed up to be a volunteer. And honestly, that's when I started healing, right? Like I was healing as I was helping these other kids heal. And then when I could see the way that they would light up and look at me like, oh my gosh, an adult who understands what I'm feeling. That in itself is just healing, knowing that they're heard. And so that's when I really started to notice the power and see what it was doing and transforming these families. And then also the caregivers wanted to talk to me nonstop about, well, you know, why are they acting this way? And my kid doesn't cry, so I don't even know if they're upset. And, you know, I was able to lean in and share my own personal experiences and know that, you know, every child does grieve differently. But honestly, sadness is one of the last you're going to see from kids.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

That's so interesting. I think more people now are aware that there's really not five steps to grief or five stages of grief. It's not that linear. But because grief is messy and it isn't that linear, how's a parent supposed to know when their kid is actually okay?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

That is a that's super complex knowing that it's just hard to be a kid, anyways. Right. Right. But some of the things that we we look at and and track through, you know, surveys and feedback and uh observations, is the child able to talk about the loss? And are they able to share, you know, what have you death and can they talk about it with others? Do they feel comfortable being able to do that? Do they understand and are they aware of all their emotions of of grief? And then also how are they doing in in school, right? And how are they doing in their other other relationships and just friendships and and things, things like that. And then also it comes in waves. An example I was going to share is one of the girls the other day, um we were talking about how they didn't cry at the funeral. The funeral funerals are very confusing and they're awkward, and you got all these people staring at you. And honestly, you just, you know, mostly you want to leave.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I mean, it's not a great we don't have a lot of robust death rituals in the United States. Right. And so there's not a lot of I don't know, I don't think they're effective. I think they're they feel a little bit more theatrical than they do like actual soulful um morning.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

I want to touch on that um around staying connected because that's something that we we talk about as as well. But so we were all talking about my my group, and that's the middle school and and high school kids, and how you know we we we didn't cry for a while, and then you know, one of the girls shared, yeah, four months later she dropped a sandwich on the floor, burst out crying, and could not stop crying, right? But it wasn't that the sandwich fell. That was just it just triggered this release of emotions in her. And so it's things like things like that, where you know that how you can what you see in a child of how grief comes out where they get in a fight on the playground, right? It's difficult to really say, are they okay, if you will, right? But you have to remember too, there's nothing wrong with that. And this is what we also help communicate like you should be feeling all of these things anger, loss, confusion, worry, guilt, sadness, those are all normal feelings that come with losing somebody. And then by helping them understand those, they'll be able to better identify I need to time out, or you know, start to be able to think about am I really upset about this? Or am I upset because my mom isn't alive anymore, so she can't sign up to bring drinks to soccer on Sunday?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

That is major. I mean, what you're talking about is interoception, that mind-body connection of going, I feel upset. What is around me that's causing me to feel that way? You know, how can I self-soothe? I mean, that's like high-level executive function that you're talking about. And so I can definitely see how the grief, you know, is comes in waves and cycles, and it may be confusing for the parent because it's definitely confusing for the child. I wanted to ask you about causes of grief because when I think about, you know, grief in this setting, in the kind of scholastic-ish area, I think about maybe students who have lost a parent, students who have lost a family member. Sadly, I think about school shootings. But I'm wondering, are there other causes of grief that are less obvious that you've seen at Valerie's house that you feel like we should bring light to?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah. So the majority of what we do, you know, at Valerie's House is our focus is around death, right? Because it is it's closure, that's it, right? It's finite. And so that's kind of our core focus. Except when we're doing our outreach programs too, we um open those up to you know, loss from incarceration or loss from abandonment, right? There's a lot of kids in our community who experience that type of loss. Even divorce is a loss. So all of these things do uh bring up grief as we would see it. So, you know, divorce, all of a sudden you're grieving the family that you used to have, or you're grieving the schedule that you used to have, and you're you're trying to figure things out, right? Those are all types of grief. And it is com complex. But, you know, even we've seen when somebody's dreams are are shattered. Um, that's also grief can come along with this, right? And you know, something I kind of wanted to circle back on is about how do you see, you know, what your kid might be doing. So something that I I did and I didn't understand this too, is I would be constantly all of a sudden I'd get this wave of anger, right? And you can chalk it up to, oh, well, you know, they're they're a teen and that's just how they are, but it would just be intense anger. And and I would always, you know, could be in a bad mood. And a lot of times I took it out on my stepmother, right? But you know, not only did I, you know, my my counselor at the time, you know, I I I tried, we tried counseling for me for a little bit when I was that age, but it it didn't, it wasn't what I needed at that that time. Um I know now, and I'm able to help kids who were, you know, my you know, are who were my age see that are you really upset at the woman that your dad's dating now? Or, you know, was I really upset at my stepmother? No, I was upset that my stepmother was in the place that somebody else was supposed to be. And so by being able to help kids see things like that too, it uh it helps them learn to know that they can get through what they're going through. But it's things like that too, that that's what teachers need to be aware of and what what you know parents need to be aware of. Grief doesn't look like just being sad. And a lot of times teachers uh don't know that there's a grieving student in their classroom, but they see that they can't concentrate or they're goofing off in class or their grades are dropping, right? These are all things that happen as a result of unsupported grief that's being held in. You know, and we actually know that there's over 10% of like the the kids in the Scambia County who are suffering the loss of a parent or a sibling or a close family member right now, and you know, that they walk into the doors of the schools and there's so much going on at school, and oftentimes there's you know, they're very misunderstood.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah. Talk to me about staying connected. You said you wanted to come back to that.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yes, staying a cat, you know, connected. So we've talked about, you know, things that we help the kids with, right? With identifying, we're making connections, we're identifying all of the emotions um that come with grief. We're talking about different types of coping mechanisms. But the other thing that we do and really um honor is help them understand that just because that person's physical body isn't here doesn't mean you're gonna lose that connection. Right. So we talk about how can we stay connected with them. You know, so for our Thanksgiving potluck, we bring, you know, people bring their loved ones' favorite dish or something from their favorite restaurant, or, you know, maybe you make their favorite recipe on their on their birthday. And we will write letters to our loved ones, right? So we help them understand that you can stay connected to the person, even though their physical body isn't here anymore. Right. And that's a lot of ways to also bring comfort. So those are a lot of things that I did and I you know I still do. You might be listening to a special song that reminds me of of my mom, you know, and now, you know, I am a mother myself. And we do, I we do things with with my child to help her, you know, have a relationship, although that sounds kind of weird, with my mother, right, who passed. So it's she now makes my mom's cinnamon rolls on, you know, Christmas morning, like my mom used to do. And it's things like that that you can bring special things still with you, even though the person isn't physically standing next to you. So we work on those things too, and it brings comfort and joy.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I like the idea of bringing that relative into the everyday instead of just living in a pile of memories in a box under the bed.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

You know, it needs to be everyday because they live with us in our hearts every day. Exactly. I think that's really beautiful. I wanted to ask you about traditional counseling compared to peer-to-peer. Is it something that a parent listening to this is maybe thinking about, oh my gosh, yes. I've now that you've described these ways that grief can show up, wow, I can't believe I've missed this. But maybe the child is in counseling because sometimes when kids have behaviors, that's a go to for parents. Is it something that works good hand in hand? Is it okay? It's not one or the other.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

No, no. They really augment each other. Sometimes the timing for a peer-to-peer type model versus individual counseling might be different. They might be at the same time and coinciding. So we do have a lot of families and kids who are doing both, right? Actually, probably about 25% of our families. And a lot of our counseling partners will share with us that their sessions actually become more productive because the child is starting to learn how to regularly talk and talk with others about their loss and how they're feeling. So it really works well together. You know, there's some families though that don't have access to it or their insurance won't cover it, or they're on a waiting list. So there's all of our programs are free to our our families and our and our children that that we serve. And it's, you know, there's never, I I would never say one or the other at all. I, you know, I have uh been through lots of counseling and all the modalities. Yes, all you know, all all of them. But at Valerie's house, we we make working through trauma fun. And I know that seems like it shouldn't fit together, but it does because of the activities that we're doing. And we're processing things in a way that kids relate to and in a fun way. And then, like I said, that can translate to um more productive times with um their individual therapist or their family therapist if that's you know, that's what we're they're doing. And we do also resources for individual counseling to the families that can't afford it or don't have access to it. We will make sure they get it and we cover that for them as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Can you give me an example of an activity that you do at Valerie's house that would be under the umbrella of fun and trauma healing?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

And trauma healing, sure. We can do, I should have brought an example, I can send you a picture. So one that is great, that is great to do, and they they all love it is called masked emotions. And you know, these art masks that you that you would get, I don't know, maybe they're like paper mache or cardboard or something. And the the exercises, we're talking about, you know, all of these different emotions, and we'll assign colors to different emotions and you know, talk about those, and then we talk about what we show on the outside to everybody and what we're holding on in the inside. And so then kids, you know, take paint and they paint the front of the mask and they paint the inside of the mask, and that is incredibly you know eye-opening. And I mean, kids, you know, there's w one child we had to go to, it's a breakthrough. He was like five and he was doing this activity and his dad had passed from death by suicide. He was in the military and had PTSD, took his own life to to deal with that uh upon his return. And the child was very confused. But he didn't know how to say that, right? And so, you know, they have their little paper with all the different colors on it, their little plate, and at the end he just, you know, mixed it all together. And the group lead was like, you know, what made you, you know, decide to do to do that? And um, you know, what does that color represent to you? And he said, confusion. You know, this is the first time he was able to actually put a word to what he was feeling, and then that is what went on the inside of his mask. That's what he's been holding in, and it's a five-year-old. So, but oftentimes too, I think you know, society doesn't think that kids can handle or understand these big emotions, but when you get them the space and the freedom to start to explore those and advocate for themselves, they do understand it. And that's one of the fun activities then that you know, that we do.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Well, yeah. Wow, what a breakthrough to be five and to be able to give a word that you understand and the big people in your life understand. And you can finally have a voice.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

That's so major. And now he comes to like tabling events with me, and he'll be like, let me put my picture right in the front of me doing that activity. It's oh my gosh. It's kind of funny. Seven, I think seven or eight now.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

So I love that age. So I want to ask before we end today about some of the logistical aspects of Valerie's House and how it works. Like, how can parents what's their first step to participate in the services that you offer?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah, so we can you can find us at valeryshouse.org slash pensacola. Uh, we're also on Valerie's Valerie's House Pensacola on Facebook, and you can find us um that way or Pensacola at Valerie's House.org is the email. And generally what happens, you know, we do get referrals from all over the you know, all over the place, but you self-refer and you can just call us and we can you know get a little bit more information, and then there's obviously information that you would need to fill, you know, fill out, but you come for an intake and meet some of us.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

And an intake is one-on-one.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

An intake is one-on-one. So you come and meet with our program manager and Jenny, and then you also, and sometimes our program coordinator, who is Ivy, actually, both former school teachers within Escambee County School District, or myself, or one of our more seasoned um volunteers, and we do tours. They get some gifts, like some grief-specific books for their age, journals, and they get a tour and they get to see what they what they do. And then we'll do a short kind of mini activity with the child while their caregiver is doing the rest of the intake. So we can really start to get to know them and make them feel comfortable, and we tell them what's gonna happen, and then they get assigned to a group night. Each family and child who's enrolled in the program comes uh two times a month. And at group, the caregivers stay, right? So the caregivers are meeting at the same time the kids are meeting. So the first thing we do is dinner and playtime, and then we separate into the age-specific groups, and we do one of the activities that we just talked about. And the caregivers are meeting at the same time, and oftentimes they're doing the the same activity, but they're it they're each other's support too. It's kid helping kid, parent helping parent, sibling helping another sibling. You know, it is all of us coming together to support each other through just you know terrible circumstances, you know, but we become a family. And we always say the Valerie's House family, and it's a place of joy and it's a place of fun, even though the reason we're all there is tragic. And sometimes there's you know a lot of big feelings and heavy things being discussed. There's a lot of laughter going on. We also do a lot of family fun events as as well, just to continue to bring that community together so they can support each other.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I love that. So you really are becoming together as a community, not just in the not just for the purpose of, hey, we need we need you to act right, little Johnny, but we're true healing, true community that goes beyond the certain age or the certain season of their life. That's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

And all we we serve ages five to eighteen, but if there's a younger sibling, we also will take, you know, care of that child during during group night. And there's no limit on like time limit between when the death happened and and coming to Valerie's house, right? So we have people who come in, you know, within a month or two months after experience a a loss, and we have others who it's been five years because they're just now finding out about about us, but there is no timeline. And that whole stages of grief thing actually that was about that was all created based on something else, and then kind of got translated into grief and loss, or so it's it's not linear, you never kind of graduate from from grief, right? You just you grow with it and then you go through waves. So I I still grieve the loss of my mom. Um, it just looks different, and and now I always say, you know, I can grieve without pain, but that doesn't mean that I'm not sad sometimes, but I'm not in pain. And you know, my you know, now you know I know that it's I'm taking the tragedy that I went through and making it a gift to another child so that they don't have to go through some of the things that I I went through in in my you know early and long years of unhealthy cupping mechanisms.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

I can't think of a better form of closure than to help somebody else with their healing. Yeah. That's pretty significant.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Thank you so much for sharing. Well, thank you for having me. And I, you know, I'm we're here to support the district and all the families and parents and grieving kids out there, and just find us on the web or on Facebook. And thank you so much for having us.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambia County Public Schools.