Ep 30 | Is Creative Writing Problem Solving?

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When I get into the classroom, one of the first things that I tell students is: if you love to read and you love school, I'm right there with you because that's me now. I love school and I love reading. But if you hate reading and you hate school, I love that too because I was you and I know exactly how I can help you.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambia County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. At the risk of sounding like an old lady, I do have my doubts about kids these days. While they have great qualities, it wouldn't be argued that they also have elevated levels of relationship disconnect and lower levels of active curiosity, problem solving, and follow-through. If you're a parent listening to this, you know the conflict these can have in a home and probably lose sleep wondering if your kid will grow up to be okay. My next guest is going to share how a problem in life might be solved by an activity in the classroom: creative writing. He's the eighth-grade English teacher, creative writing teacher, and department chair at Ernest Ward Middle School. He's also someone who hated school and was a slow reader, but now reads philosophy for fun. Knowledge enthusiast, future novelist, helping kids go from apathetic to engaged, Alexander Fitzgerald. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Thank you very much for having me. I love that you highlighted the philosophy. That's the thing that I love. I love philosophy right now, which is so weird because before, yeah, like you said, when I was in school, I I hated. I just I did not, I thought it was boring. I was good at it, but I thought it was boring. And um, I really did not like to read much at all. And the only time that I did read was if I had a friend who said, Hey, let's read this book together. And I thought, what? And but they were my best friend. They were like one of my only friends. So I said, okay, fine, I'll read this book. And then I would end up staying up until 3 a.m. just to finish different pages of this book with them. But if that wasn't happening, then I wasn't reading at all. So when I get into the classroom, one of the first things that I tell students is, if you love to read and you love school, I'm right there with you because that's me now. I love school and I love reading. Uh, but if you hate reading and you hate school, I love that too because I was you and I know exactly how I can help you. So they kind of perk up a little bit and they're like, wait, what? You didn't like school? I have an English teacher who didn't like school.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

And is admitting it out loud. Right, exactly. So is he even allowed to do that?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

I I I don't know. You know, we can't ever admit our faults, but um but I think it's good to do that and to to say, you know, this is who I was, but it doesn't have to be who I am. Right. Um, things can change, and uh having those friends or those people around us to encourage us to read is a really huge part of even getting started in that. Um, you know, talking about creative writing, if you're gonna get to writing, you have to be a reader. Uh Stephen King mentions that in his book on writing, and he says the two things you need to be a great writer are to read and to write. There's just no way around it. There's a whole bunch of other tricks that you could have, but you have to read and you have to write, or else you're not gonna improve as either of those people.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

So for you, outside of peer pressure, what made the difference for you to convert from hating school and hating reading to loving school and loving reading?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

So, besides actually getting to read with people, uh, because like in high school, I didn't really have anyone that I would read with, like I did in middle school. But when I got to college, that's when I had professors who said, Well, you should be annotating the text. And I thought, annotating the text? What do you mean, annotate? And they said, Well, you should be interacting, highlighting, writing in. And I thought that was almost sacrilegious. You can't write in your books, then it's not going to be perfect anymore. Right. But I heard, I forgot who said it, but there was somebody who had said that they enjoy seeing a book all worn and torn and with writing because it shows that it was almost lived in, that somebody actually experienced this book. If it doesn't look worn and it looks perfect, that's nice, but it looks like you never even touched it. So when people come over and they see your great collection of books and and everything, if it looks perfect, then they're gonna think, well, maybe you haven't read that book yet. I mean, that's great that you have it, but is it more for show? Right. Um, so I took that and and I write in my books avidly now, uh, because it's really the way that I connect. I don't I don't know how other people read um as far as what they see. I'm always interested about that because when I was growing up, it was always you should be reading is like a movie in your head and you should see pictures, and I don't. So it was so boring because I just heard my own voice and I don't want to hear my own voice. I'm sorry if you're hearing my voice right now, but I don't want to hear my own voice. Right. And uh so I just didn't like it a whole bunch because I didn't see pictures and I didn't ha see this whole movie. I can visualize, but it's not something that's happening as I'm reading. It's something I have to pause from. So getting to annotate meant that I'm interacting with the text. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Where we're making it your own because it's your handwriting and your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

And that makes me remember what I read that much more. If I highlight it, I remember it. If I write in the book, I can almost teach that. That means that I not only saw something I enjoyed, but I connected to it and I had a thought about it and a comment, and it's ruminating in my head, and it's something that I'm still pondering. So it's something I can share with others and teach them. And you learn about 90% of what you teach. Uh, that's the biggest thing. And it's not memorization, it's getting to actually teach other people. Pass it on. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

So, how does that work with kids now? Do they still I'm this sounds makes me sound so old again with the old lady theme, right? But do they have paper books or is it all on a digital device? How are they gonna annotate?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Actually, it's really neat because uh there's a more of a hybrid and you can choose what works best for you. I used to be uh very much a book purist in that it had to be on paper and it couldn't be anything else. And I have since, depending on what I'm reading, switched to the Kindle and I'll read on my Kindle. Um and you can highlight on there, you can still make comments. Oh yeah. Uh you can just you just touch with your finger and highlight, and then you can make comments. It's a little bit slower than if I just got to write in the book. But um it's still really good. I use it more for fiction, uh, things that are enjoyable, easy reads, things that are philosophy, those big reads that require a lot of brain power for just one page, then I need the actual physical book. So it depends.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Um each student can kind of decide.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Exactly. And that's the biggest thing is encouraging choice in all of this um to get kids to read and to write more. And ownership. Exactly. If they're gonna own something, they have to actually want to own it.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yes. And today we're gonna talk about several uh skill sets that solve problems and with creative writing. We're not gonna solve all the world's problems. I know. I kind of wish we could. That would be amazing. Do you have another hour? Is that all we need? It's another hour. Oh, just an hour. Just an hour, you know. But we're gonna talk about apathy to learn, lack of follow-through, and relationship disconnect. So let's start with apathy to learn. What does apathy to learn look like in a student?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Well, I find there's just this uh students don't really understand why they're doing what they're doing. Um sometimes that comes from the way the lesson was planned, but I find it more comes from the curriculum itself. A lot of the curricula um is designed more, as much as we don't want to admit it and don't want to believe it, it is designed for test taking. It's designed to get them to do well on a test and to meet standards, and that's what we're concerned about. Um and so the kids kind of they I mean, they can they can tell what's authentic and what's not authentic. Even in a person, you know, if if you have a teacher who comes in that is putting on kind of a face, they can see that and they don't respect it as much as somebody who's just authentically being themselves. And they're the same way in learning. They like I think every person wants to learn something that they feel authentically matters. Um, and everything that we teach does matter. It's more us trying to show them how and why it matters beyond just a test. The test is is necessary to see where they're at, and that's great. But how does it go beyond that? And so when they're reading, they need some form of choice to be able to actually engage. Otherwise, they don't really read at all, or they'll skim, they won't try to actually engage in the text, or they'll read it, and then they'll think that all they have to do is answer some questions and then they'll be done. And so when you ask them, okay, now let's annotate the text, let's close read, they kind of it's almost, you know, there's the there's a push and pull there. They don't really want to, uh, because it does require some harder brain power and and not saying that that's everybody, um, but I think we're just in an age now where students don't have to do a whole lot uh to get the answers that they need or that they want.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Um how does creative writing remedy that apathy? Because if if the apathy is kind of um an easy state of mind to slip into because if they pass the test, then technically they've done it, you know, what they need to do. We're talking about engagement, right? So how does creative writing solve apathy to learn?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Creative writing is great because there is no look up the answer. That you can't you can't find it. It's in your brain and you just have to use it. It also forces them to fail and to fail productively. Uh, a lot of times we don't build classrooms or we don't have the time to build classrooms that allow um productive failure, which is the only way that you learn. To to learn requires to try something to see if it was right or wrong. If it was right, then your brain puts that into its schema and continues on. And if it was wrong, then your brain says, Well, wait a second, how do I make that right? And tries to course correct. And in that, that's where that learning occurs. And it's just course correcting every time. It needs to fail so that way it figures out what the right thing to do is and learns that whole process.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Okay, I think I see what you're saying now. It's like creative writing allows the student to become more engaged in process and because they're in it, like really in the process, not just um, you know, a peripheral part of it, then they excuse me, then they're able to uh engage the the senses basically and become more excited about it. Talk to me about uh problem solving as another thing that creative writing solves because this this one really surprised me because when I think of problem solving, I it's like STEMI. Do you know what I mean? It's like problem solving is STEM y while creative writing is like, you know, open my ignite. So, what's the connection between problem solving and creative writing?

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Well, luckily, recently there's a movement to change STEM to STEAM and to add that A for arts in there because the arts are what help us to problem solve and and to think in a way that um is creative and artistic, and that all adds into the science of it all, makes it look very nice at the same time. And uh so with problem solving, students start writing and getting that failure. They think, oh, my writing's no good. Everybody always uh thinks that their writing is no good when they write. And in some ways, I would also agree with them. One of the first things I do when I teach uh with like first drafts is I tell them your goal in this first draft is to write the worst first draft that you possibly can. Because a lot of times people won't start, I won't start a paper until I get past the perfectionist point where I think I'm gonna start this and it's gotta be perfect right off the bat. There's so many people who think it's gotta be perfect off the bat or else they won't start. And that's so many students now. And so I think part of their apathy is that they're just afraid to just to start because again, they aren't given that room to fail. And so when they do get that room to fail and they realize, okay, it's not gonna be good, then they can go into this with now that I have this terrible first draft, I've succeeded, yay. Now I can try to figure out how to make it better. And that's where the reading becomes important because as you read from different authors, especially authors that you love, you start learning how they do things, and then you start thinking, well, maybe I can try to do that. And it can be something as simple as sentence composition, where you have a prepositional phrase at the beginning instead of just a simple sentence, or it can be something more advanced where you're including symbolism and allusion to different things and a lot of different literary elements. So it can range um a lot depending on what you're trying to do, but that's the reading component becomes necessary because it teaches you how to get better. And so, in that problem solving, that transfers their knowledge over into the real world because when they don't know what to do, you go to the expert and you start reading and you start learning and you start researching. You don't go to Google and just say, How do I do this thing and get an answer? You actually start learning that you have to sift through lots of information to get to that answer that you want. And then even sometimes you might like it the answer, but you have to make inferences and pull all that information together to create something entirely your own.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Wow, I never thought of I love creative writing, I never thought of it like that. You're you're so right. That the process of creative writing really helps you get unstuck. Like not even, and I'm thinking about my own life, you know, how free writing has helped me just mentally or emotionally, or you know, I have like a maybe it's an interpersonal problem. There's so many life uh applications to this that honestly I never even considered because I do naturally like it, you know, so it's a natural thing for me. But what a tool for kids who maybe that isn't a natural thing for them, or they do tend to be, you know, anxious achievers. They can get unstuck and overcome the fear by realizing the first finish line is making something terrible. That's like so freeing.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

And it offers that room to do that because again, like I said, with the pacing guides and everything that we have, um, we as teachers, I think every teacher wants to offer those opportunities for productive failure. And in subsubjects, they're able to do that more often than others. But ones that have pacing guides and that, you know, they have to follow in this pace, they unfortunately just aren't given that opportunity to do it as much as they'd like. They might be able to do it sometimes, but it's hard to make it a standard when you have to just keep moving uh forward. And so doing that just even on their own, not even as a class, but on their own in a journal or something, offers that opportunity to think more. And it really requires that. I mean, the failure part's great, the problem-solving part's really important too. Really important. Because if you're writing in your journal and you're writing this poetry and getting all your feelings out, that's great, that's awesome. But it could be so much better if you just also read some poetry as well and see how other people write poetry. Maybe pick up a Pulitzer Prize-winning poetry book to see why did they win that prize? Can I implement some of that in my own poetry? And then this poetry that was just kind of getting your feelings out can become something that you could actually enter into a contest.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Or and andor solve the problem that caused you to need to write it in the first place. Exactly. Which leads us to our third problem, which is follow-through. So, how does creative writing facilitate follow-through in students?

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Students need the opportunity to finish something and know that they they finished it. A lot of times we get these mountainous assignments, um, whether you're in college or after college, um, or just in K through 12, and you get this paper that you think is huge. My students think that a 10-sentence paragraph is like impossible right now. They're like, Well, 10 sentences? Last year it was five. What are you talking about? I said, Well, we're getting to high school now, you know. So it helps us when we can write something, something that we enjoyed writing, um, and that we actually had a lot of ownership of, and that we can finish that, then it shows us, okay, I I can do these things. Because creative writing, not only was it difficult to write that, but usually it's a longer piece of writing than they would have ever done for their regular academic work. You know, with the scholastic writing competition, I do that for my creative writing students, and I make them write about three pages of actual short story work uh for that competition. These are eighth graders writing three pages of a short story, and then they can also submit poetry, and not to brag, but we usually have somebody who goes to nationals every year, I'm just saying. Um it gives them the opportunity to see, I can write this and I can finish it. And that feels really good when it's like I wrote this whole story and it's this big long piece, and it's done. Even if it still needs revisions, it's done.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

And that's so important because when you think about young minds, have you ever uh learned about, I'm sure you have, the the reason why time flies when you're older, but it crawls when you're younger? I have no okay. This totally ties in when you're um now I'm not the pressure is on to get this correct, but when you're younger, you don't have the the basically the experience of experiencing time. That's like the the dumbest, downest way that I can probably and you know phrase that. Um, and so that's why time just seems to drag on. And as an adult, you've got all this experience of time, right? You have got decades, depending on how old you are. And so, oh my gosh, where did January go? Where did February go? Where did 2022 go? It's all gone so quickly. And so that's part of the reason why their little undeveloped brains have such a hard time with patience and concepts of, you know, um, risk reward and you know, investing in this now will be a long-term reward later. You know, it's all like tied into their little development of becoming adult humans, right? Um, so I could totally see now how creative writing would allow them to begin that journey of realizing, oh, if I do this now, the reward will be later. This seems like torture now, but it it will be finished later, and I will feel good. And so you've got that those elements of discipline and long-term reward, and this is all very good. We're running out of time, but I I want to address something that I think every parent has to deal with the one-word answers. You know, the student comes home from school, the parent says, What'd you say? How is your day?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

How was your day? Fine. Yep, fine. It was good. Did you do anything? No.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

What do you mean you didn't do anything?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Like literally, you were there for seven hours. So, how have you seen creative writing help with that?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Uh well, for me, especially just even in my classroom, and I'm not even their parents, but I when they write creatively, their emotions come out. What they're thinking about comes out because it's their own writing. And so I learn more about my students, and I'm able to build those relationships with them. So if parents were able to see what they're writing uh creatively, then they can build even stronger relationships with their kids and learn what's really going on with them. I had one student, uh, we were doing blackout poetry, and I let them pick their own writing and then black it out to create a poem. And one student blacked out his poetry, and he brought it to me to look at, and I noticed that the words that he picked to leave were things like father, oh no, died suddenly, all these sorts of things. So I pulled him aside because I knew something happened with his parents. I couldn't remember what, and I didn't want to pry, you know, if it wasn't any of my business. So I pulled him aside and I said, Um, if you don't mind me asking, I know something happened with your parents. If you don't want to talk to me about it, you don't have to, and we don't need to talk about it, and we're good. But if you don't mind telling me, could you tell me what happened? So he explained um that his mom is uh currently in prison and his dad died when he was younger. And um reading that, I then I mean it just put in a whole new light, and I thought, okay, this might be an anniversary of his death, I don't know. But he's thinking about his dad right now. Um, and it was a moment where I was able to to console them, to kind of get the guidance counselor involved a little bit as well. Um, but it was really impactful to be able to see how that comes out. And the thing is with creative writing is kids actually want you to read their work. I know when when we suggest creative writing, people might think, yeah, but they're not gonna want me to see it. If you notice the things that are really good in their writing, I mean be honest with them, don't be brutally honest, but be honest with them and tell them, you know, what worked really well that you enjoyed and really enjoy it. Devour it like it's this delicious cake or something in your brain. Um, and then the things that weren't good suggest, you know, well, maybe if you worked here on this, because what it does is it gives them that praise and and makes them realize, wait, I'm good at something. And this person didn't only like it, they loved it. They want more of it. So maybe I should keep doing this. And when I do that, they want to start showing me their work. But then when I also give them that fe that critical feedback, they think, oh, well, I need to go back, I need to fix it, I need to do something. They want to do more to make it even better. How can Mr. Fitz enjoy it that much more? Because I want him to think this is the most amazing thing I've ever written. And so they they they come back every time. We did one writing exercise yesterday, and it it requires several different parts, and they're writing multiple pieces throughout the class period, and it took us forever to get to the end of the exercise, which should not take long, because at the end of each writing piece, everyone would start shouting, Okay, can you read this? Can you read this for me? Can you take a look at this? Oh, they wanted you to read their things. They wanted me to read their stuff. I mean, instantly, the minute we finished. And I said, Well, we've got more to write, we've got more to do. I'll read it, but like, let's wait until the end of the entire exercise.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

And then we can read it. So they they want you to read their stuff when you give honest, but not brutal, but just honest feedback and you enjoy the things that they write, and you're also critical about the things that maybe need some work. And that's when then you can start suggesting, well, it looks like you like to write about mystery. How about these mystery novels or fantasy or poetry, and start suggesting different books for them to read to where they can improve and grow on what they're doing?

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Wow. That's incredible. I had no idea. I didn't know again. I loved creative writing. I loved writing, like English, all that stuff was my jam. And I'm just I have goosebumps thinking about how much creative writing can help kids in all these areas. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Thank you for having me and for letting me share about uh that's one of my favorite things. I sometimes wish I kind of went back and majored in creative writing and then got an um alternative certification in teaching just because I do really enjoy creative writing. I started many a novel, did not finish many a novel, uh, but maybe one day, you never know.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Future novelist, Mr. Fitz. It's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

I hope so. I might be poet now. I used to be a novelist, but I really enjoy writing poetry now. So it might be that.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Well, thank you again.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambia County Public Schools.