Ep 187 | Success Academy: Where students rebound!

[00:00:38] Meredith: [00:00:00] No one likes the feeling of being behind, but for students being behind can mean a lifelong game of catch up with compounding complexities. My next guest is the principal at Success Academy, where her and her team are helping young people have a more even playing field. And today she's going to share who makes up their student population and just how they are ensuring that kids aren't left behind.

Champion of second chances and graduation go-getter. Don Gibbs, thanks for being here. 

[00:01:08] Dawn Gibbs: Thank you 

[00:01:08] Meredith: Absolutely. So you said in our pre-chat that people think that alternative school is air quotes for the bad kids, but. There's some, some missing pieces to that, perception. Can you fill us in?

[00:01:21] Dawn Gibbs: Sure. We really serve a variety of students. there's a lot of different reasons why students end up at Success Academy or apply for Success Academy because, that is the process for, the majority of our students, and that can be because they're academically behind and that academically behind can be.

for. A million different reasons that are unique to each and every student. we have students that have gotten behind because they have medical issues. we serve hospital home bound students who, you know, for whatever reason can't be in school on a daily basis. They've gotten behind in traditional school.

Maybe they've had family members that have had, Medical issues that have kept them from going to school. they may have moved multiple times. They may be very transient. Homelessness is a big reason why students end up with us. and of course COVID has, exacerbated that for so many of our students and they're still trying to play catch up.

 

[00:02:24] Meredith: that just because of the mental health aspect or just they got behind academically? What do you mean? COVID had an impact?

[00:02:30] Dawn Gibbs: Oh my goodness. So, our students, so we serve students in sixth through 12th grade, and if you take into account that our sixth graders were what, in first grade when COVID happened, so they could have very easily have lost two years.

because there were so many of our students that we couldn't get in touch with or, you know, they were not. Joining us online, or they didn't have the ability to join us online and, they just weren't going to school or weren't being, weren't connected. And then when they finally did get back in, they were so far behind, and missing so much that, you know, especially those sixth graders we have now, first, second, third grade, those are incredibly formative years as far as education is concerned.

[00:03:21] Meredith: Even just like basic stuff like language and 

social skills and

understanding how to be a part of a classroom.

[00:03:28] Dawn Gibbs: Yes. And so, you know, when once you got behind on that, then you're just playing catch up. And for some of them it just felt so defeating that, you know, a lot of them get into middle school and they're just like, you know, I'm done.

I don't wanna be 16 years old in the seventh grade, you know. But our goal is to turn that around. And, let's get you where you need to be or as close to where you need to be as we can, so that you can jump back in and, have the tools that you need to make those advances and, and have as much of that high school experiences you possibly can.

So that's what we're working towards. Always.

[00:04:14] Meredith: You said earlier, before we hit record that. Kids who have behavior issues is actually a really small population. I think people would be surprised by that.

[00:04:26] Dawn Gibbs: Right. So 

it always surprises me, but that's because I'm on side of it. Um, yeah. For, for Success Academy, our students who, have been disciplinary reassigned are actually a much smaller part of our population than our students who are academically behind.

So, We became a blended model school, early in, in the history of Success Academy and,we'll go into that later. But, so Second Chance was a program that already existed. when Success [00:05:00] Academy started and we just happened to be on the same campus, so in order to find somewhere for Success Academy to start, they put us on the same campus with Second Chance.

And, so Second Chance was the initial behavioral reassignment. And, um, through a series of events, those two programs became, one. And, but we have kept it.

it separate in that second chance, students still follow their regular schedule, just like they do in their traditional high schools. Whereas, we refer to 'em as our Excel students, because they're accelerating.

So they go through an entirely different process to enroll at Success Academy and, their schedule looks different. How the setup of the classrooms is very different from what the second chance students experience.

[00:05:51] Meredith: so what's the history that you were referring to a minute ago?

[00:05:55] Dawn Gibbs: Okay, so in. Roughly 2015. Uh, when I was the assistant principal at Washington High School, I was invited to be on a task force, a graduation task force.

 that was an initiative of, of Mr. Thomas, who was the superintendent at the time. And what we discovered through monthly meetings with a number of stakeholders was that. Graduation doesn't start in high school. Graduation starts as far back as middle school. That that's where we were losing kids before they ever even got to high school.

And so we needed to think more about how to address that in our, in our community. and that was the initial intent for success. So we, we took and started this program with four classrooms, me and four teachers. They put us in four classrooms at Judy Andrews and, center in Warrington. And we were on that campus with the Second Chance program, which has always been the behavioral.

We reassigned students, for high school. we spent three years on that campus maybe four. during that time, the administrator for Second Chance had an accident. I was the only administrator on campus, so I took over, you know, both programs and then they decided to combine them.

shortly after that, we moved from Warrington to, that was about the time that, um, west Florida was moving to their new facility at what used to be Woodham. so they took. Part of that campus and reassigned us to that campus primarily so that we would be right there by George Stone. So that's another part of our program is that what we try to do is take our students who they got behind in middle school or high school?

Either one. We do both now. But trying to get those students where they're better prepared for if they don't have a lot of guidance or their, you know, families just don't know what's available for them to do next. part of our program is to set them up. We don't wanna just show them what's out there.

For them to do next, we wanna like have them signed up for it. So before our students leave our program, especially if they're juniors or seniors, we want 'em to have a very clear cut plan as to what's next. we go on multiple field trips and career fairs and all those kinds of things, for instance, if I have students that we know want to go into the military. Then we're gonna have 'em take the ASVAB with us. We're gonna have already had 'em talk to a recruiter. Hopefully we already have 'em a date that they know when they're going to bootcamp. What, you know, everything is all set up for them. if they're a student that's college bound, we're gonna meet with the parent, we're gonna make sure they've got that FAFSA filled out.

How are we gonna pay for this? Where are you going? Have you written your ass essay? You know, all of the entrance things. 

[00:08:51] Meredith: so it's not just catching them up, it's like really setting them up for 

[00:08:54] Dawn Gibbs: launch.

Yes, yes. So because, so, you know, for, for some of our families that's a barrier because a lot of our students, their parents have not graduated from high school and they don't really know how to navigate that.

so that's part of what we're trying to do is make sure that, that we help them navigate those waters that. That they're just not sure what to do next. we wanna have 'em moving in a direction so they're more likely to keep 

[00:09:21] Meredith: moving.

Right. Right. 'cause I, I like that because I think there could be a temptation as. An organization to just pat yourself on the back like, look, we issued X number of diplomas good on us, but this kind of shows that you're very aware that no, these kids go. Become part of our community. There's no, they leave, like they're, we're all in the community together. They are reabsorbed. Yes. And so we need to make, be sure that that is a successful process for them.

I had another question about the, the student population. because I, [00:10:00] in our pre-chat you were telling me about ACE scores, adverse childhood experience scale, which kind of measures. Trauma, uh, person has had during childhood. And four is kind of the cutoff for long-term health and wellness risk, and 10 is the highest.

Tell me about your students and their ACE scores. 'cause I found that as a, an interesting point.

[00:10:23] Dawn Gibbs: so for the majority of our students, um,

and, and we have tracked this more 

[00:10:27] Meredith: closely 

[00:10:29] Dawn Gibbs: over the years, not so much recently, but it, we, we did, As we were first beginning, 

mainly to see what sort of services our students would need, you know, while on our campus.

And we discovered that more often than not, our students were anywhere from six to nine to 

[00:10:46] Meredith: 10.

That's major.

[00:10:48] Dawn Gibbs: yeah, so they were, they were dealing with a lot 

[00:10:51] Meredith: of. 

[00:10:52] Dawn Gibbs: Issues that in our traditional schools, those number, the numbers of students that you're dealing with that have that kind of trauma, is much lower. Where for us, that was probably 70, 75% of our population.

 so, you know, we could 

[00:11:09] Meredith: see. 

[00:11:11] Dawn Gibbs: Where that started. And that's one of the things we're looking for is, you know, why, why are our students in the situation that they're in and what do we need to do to help move them along? and to get past those barriers,

[00:11:29] Meredith: because they're major barriers.

[00:11:31] Dawn Gibbs: I mean, absolutely. 

[00:11:32] Meredith: Like you said, seven or eight of the kids that you have now have a parent who've died. Who's died in the last 

[00:11:37] Dawn Gibbs: five 

years. Absolutely. I 

[00:11:38] Meredith: that is, as an adult, losing a parent is 

very 

life rocking. Yeah. So as a child with, you know, you're still developing your personhood. To have that, be in that situation would really.

Impact your educational 

[00:11:56] Dawn Gibbs: trajectory. 

Oh, yeah. 

And, and in many cases, I've 

[00:12:00] Meredith: had at 

[00:12:00] Dawn Gibbs: least, well, I can think of at least two right this minute that I've lost both parents. And are being 

[00:12:07] Meredith: raised by 

a 

sibling.

Oh my gosh.

[00:12:09] Dawn Gibbs: Oh my gosh. So, and I'm, I mean, a sibling who's three, four years older than they are, you know, 20, 21, 22 year olds. and that's being 20 through 22 is hard enough, but I can't imagine having to deal with your 16-year-old.

You know, younger brothers, sister, 

[00:12:26] Meredith: Yeah. 

[00:12:27] Dawn Gibbs: whatever.

[00:12:28] Meredith: You also mentioned to me that about half of your students 

[00:12:31] Dawn Gibbs: are 

ESE. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:33] Meredith: And I, I wanted to ask you, is that a secondary feature to the, the other list that you gave, or would you consider that a more primary driver into how they got matched with Success Academy?

[00:12:44] Dawn Gibbs: I think it's secondary. for whatever reason, 

 

And there's a lot of qualifications for ESE as you Big umbrella. Yeah, big umbrella. Um, you know, some of those are because students are hospital home bound with us through our hospital home bound program. some of those are, you know, that includes gifted students, who believe it or not, are often not successful in school.

because they don't play the game well, that they're not, you know, 

[00:13:13] Meredith: I'm above 

all 

[00:13:14] Dawn Gibbs: this. 

Um, I'm, I'm smarter than this. I don't wanna have to write this for my homework. Um, or 

[00:13:19] Meredith: this 

[00:13:20] Dawn Gibbs: case may be. Yeah. And, uh, you know, just because you're gifted doesn't mean that school is easy for you.

 and so they end up with poor GPAs or missing credits or whatever the case may be, and they have to come to us and, and fix that. so there, there's a big umbrella for ESE students. I will tell you a story about a young man that we had, that I consider one of our biggest success stories, when we were still in Warrington.

He came to us probably our second 

[00:13:46] Meredith: or 

third 

year, 

[00:13:48] Dawn Gibbs: and 

he 

[00:13:49] Meredith: had 

been, 

[00:13:51] Dawn Gibbs: and I, I, 

I didn't know this at the time. and that's another part of our program I'll talk about later, but, that particular student. We went ahead and took him as a student. He was in the eighth grade, had been struggling. He 

[00:14:03] Meredith: was

 

[00:14:03] Dawn Gibbs: he was over age, but not substantially, maybe 14, when he came to our program.

But he had been, I discovered after he'd been in our school that he had been physically violent with adults in every school 

[00:14:15] Meredith: he'd 

[00:14:15] Dawn Gibbs: been in.

[00:14:16] Meredith: 

[00:14:16] Dawn Gibbs: we never experienced 

that 

with him, 

but he 

[00:14:20] Meredith: on 

the spectrum. 

[00:14:22] Dawn Gibbs: And transitions were incredibly difficult for him. Well, in a traditional school, 

there are a lot of transitions. Every time that bell rings, every time, you know, if you figure you 

have, 

 six or seven periods a day where that bell's gonna ring, you have to get all your stuff together. You have to move to outside, into a hallway where all these people are moving around and.

Moving into another room, a different teacher, a different environment, a different group of students. And for particularly those students that are on the spectrum, that can be incredibly overwhelming. and that, and that [00:15:00] was the event. That was his problem, was that it was, that was just too much for him.

and so he took 

[00:15:08] Meredith: it out 

[00:15:08] Dawn Gibbs: others. 

And when he was 

[00:15:10] Meredith: with 

us. 

[00:15:12] Dawn Gibbs: We have a much smaller 

environment 

and we work to find the things that work are able, because of our smaller environment to work to find the things that work for that particular student. In 

his case, 

he sat in one room, in his desk, in his spot.

[00:15:30] Meredith: That 

was 

[00:15:31] Dawn Gibbs: place, 

and as long as he was working, we didn't 

[00:15:34] Meredith: make him 

move. 

[00:15:36] Dawn Gibbs: That's the teacher you're comfortable with. That's the desk you're comfortable with. Fine. Let's get your work done from right there. 

[00:15:43] Meredith: Yeah. And 

[00:15:45] Dawn Gibbs: he, his only transition with us was when we 

[00:15:48] Meredith: moved to the 

new building. 

[00:15:51] Dawn Gibbs: But he ended up graduating with us and as he matured, those transitions became easier and he was better able to.

You know, make those transitions. But he was with us for five years. Well, actually more than that because when he graduated, he then came back and was a custodian for us, so. Oh, yeah. So 

[00:16:10] Meredith: he really 

did 

like it 

there. Oh yeah. 

[00:16:12] Dawn Gibbs: Oh yeah. So he was, you know, that's what worked for 

him. 

But we had, because we're so much smaller environment, we can make those concessions for children who need that.

Because sometimes, you 

know that 

that big environment 

is just, 

it's a lot. It's a lot. 

[00:16:31] Meredith: Tell me more about the, the setup of the school. So it's smaller classrooms. How small, like 

[00:16:37] Dawn Gibbs: how 

many 

kids 

are 

we 

talking?

Uh, 

[00:16:38] Meredith: we typically.

cap

[00:16:40] Dawn Gibbs: the classes at, um, 15.

[00:16:42] Meredith: Oh my gosh,

That's, really small. and, and there are, we 

use 

[00:16:45] Dawn Gibbs: teachers 

for, and of course this is all the Excel side. We use two teachers for a group of students. So those two teachers will have 30 students. and, and the purpose for that is they need more intensive assistance. So they get a lot more one-on-one individual attention while we have them there.

we are able to give them a lot of attention with regard to going back and trying to pick up those things that they've 

missed. 

 particularly in math and reading a lot of interventions that we put in place, a lot of small group activities that they do. trying to get 'em caught up and better prepared.

For the classroom. What we have found with our students 

[00:17:28] Meredith: is 

[00:17:29] Dawn Gibbs: school is one of those things that you need a toolbox for. You know, you, you need to understand what's important that the 

[00:17:38] Meredith: teacher 

is 

saying. 

[00:17:40] Dawn Gibbs: Organization is a big part of being in school and our students are coming to us without those tools. So a lot of what we concentrate on is. What do we need to do for this particular student to make them a little more comfortable?

Help them deal with the traumas that they've had in the past, and give them more tools to work in that toolbox of this is what you're gonna need to be successful in a traditional school. So the program that that we use, and of course this is district wide, the program that they use for, credit recovery is, 

[00:18:19] Meredith: Edgenuity.

[00:18:20] Dawn Gibbs: And 

there's an element of Edgenuity that deals with, notes. And of course you can take notes in Edgenuity, electronically, but for us, we print 'em off. So each student has a notebook of all the classes that they're enrolled in and the notes for those classes. So They do their guided notes, but what we're trying to do through that is one, teach 'em what's important that 

[00:18:45] Meredith: the teacher's 

[00:18:45] Dawn Gibbs: saying and learning how to organize those notes and keep 'em organized, and how to use 

[00:18:52] Meredith: those to 

[00:18:53] Dawn Gibbs: take a test, study for a test, take an exam, you know, all of those things that there's a correlation between the two.

And if you can learn how 

[00:19:05] Meredith: to master 

[00:19:05] Dawn Gibbs: that. That's a huge factor of being successful in traditional school, just like I, alluded to with gifted students. 

You 

know, they don't wanna do that part because that part's boring. Um, but. That's the part that you know well, helps to make you successful in school.

The turning in the assignments, having the tools to turn in those assignments, keeping it organized, 

that kind of stuff.

[00:19:30] Meredith: So on average, how academically behind are students when they enroll in Success Academy? Is it like one or two years or 

is 

[00:19:37] Dawn Gibbs: it 

more

 the typical student is right about a year and a 

half to two years behind.

[00:19:42] Meredith: And with this curriculum and kind of one-on-one support, do they. Do they kind of speed through and like literally catch up? Or is the goal line more about just getting them to a graduation regardless of the date?

That 

[00:19:58] Dawn Gibbs: depends on the student. [00:20:00] So, my personal philosophy has always been that in very few circumstances, am I interested in putting a student in a situation where they're gonna 

graduate. 

Prior to what would be great appro 

[00:20:13] Meredith: age appropriate.

Okay.

[00:20:15] Dawn Gibbs: You know, I don't feel like a 16-year-old necessarily needs to be graduating from high school. instead that's a student that, depending on the family situation, if, if you're in a, in 

a good, 

stable family environment, then instead of graduating at 16, let's, let's defer, let's 

[00:20:34] Meredith: wait 

and. 

[00:20:35] Dawn Gibbs: Put you in George Stone or put you at PSC and do some dual enrollment or, or whatever the case may be, so that you're, you know, if it's a situation where your cohort here 

[00:20:46] Meredith: is 

say 

[00:20:48] Dawn Gibbs: 2324, that's, that's the year you went into ninth grade. Sure, you can graduate earlier than that because you can do the 18 credit option and, we can get you through that point if, you know you 

[00:21:00] Meredith: come 

in and really 

work.

[00:21:02] Dawn Gibbs: but. Do you need to graduate from high school at 16? Now what are you gonna do?

[00:21:06] Meredith: Right? 

Because it the big, now what is 

[00:21:08] Dawn Gibbs: a 

huge 

So unless it's a situation where I have a student, I 

[00:21:12] Meredith: mean, 

[00:21:12] Dawn Gibbs: know, 

sometimes we 

have. 

Students that are teen moms or you know, or teen parents in general. or in the case of I'm living with a sibling and I'm, you know, gonna have to be independent sooner rather than later, then that's a case by case basis.

You know, that that student needs 

[00:21:30] Meredith: additional 

support.

but 

[00:21:32] Dawn Gibbs: typically we're gonna keep 'em at their age appropriate 

grade 

level.

[00:21:36] Meredith: and they graduate from Success Academy, or do they go 

back 

to 

the 

mainstream 

school?

[00:21:41] Dawn Gibbs: either.

I love how customized this is. So it's like every answer depends. It depends. But I think that's such a, um.

such an asset that you're able to have that flexibility to support it, the kids and their individual needs. And it's not just like, well, this is our program and if you don't fit in it, then that's on you.

Well, 

 we're for the round peg that doesn't fit in the square hole. so typically if a student comes to us, we try to send 'em back to their traditional school within a two year period.

 At that point, they should have gotten caught up and, and be, you know, relatively close to that age appropriate grade level. If we're talking about a, a high school student that's come to us as an 11th grader maybe, and they've, they're GPA is tanked and they're significantly behind in credits. they may stay with us through graduation and they certainly can graduate with us just like the student I talked about earlier.

 So we graduate in the Bay Center, have a traditional graduation, just like all the other schools we graduate with, Georgetown and, Escambia Virtual and Acceleration Academy.

So we have one graduation with all of them. but it is the same. You know, type ceremony. But for my students who've actually been in a traditional high school and, and worked the, you know, they are a pine forest eagle, they just came to us for us to give them a little boost and get 'em back on track so that they can go back.

They certainly can graduate with pine forest, as long as they have not been a part of the behaviorally reassigned.

[00:23:11] Meredith: Okay. 

Okay, that makes sense. I have, one last big question before we sign off, and that's about, the enrollment. 'cause I was poking around on your website and I didn't expect this, but there's a big button that says open enrollment. And I was like, wait a minute. I, I was thinking that maybe the mainstream school was sending kids to Success Academy, but this is something a 

[00:23:34] Dawn Gibbs: parent 

can 

choose.

Yes. So, so they apply, all of our students that are on the Excel side apply for our program. and the schools. We'll encourage them to go.

Counselors will encourage them to go and, and apply. 

 we have found that it's, it's 

[00:23:52] Meredith: never 

a good 

idea 

[00:23:53] Dawn Gibbs: to say

say to a parent, Hey, you need to go do this. Yeah. You know, or we are going to do this for you. there's 

there's 

choice here. this is 

[00:24:05] Meredith: a 

journey 

[00:24:06] Dawn Gibbs: that. 

We 

a parent. Our guardian and a student need to take together.

And part of that process is we would like for you to apply and we're gonna go through, we have a committee that meets on a weekly basis and goes through those applications, and we are looking for those students with 

the greatest need. 

 you know, who, who is it that's gonna most benefit from our program?

Because of the limited numbers, we wanna make sure that we're bringing in those students that need us the most. 

 And 

[00:24:39] Meredith: that are 

[00:24:39] Dawn Gibbs: be the most successful with us. You know, if, if we're talking 

[00:24:42] Meredith: about 

a 

student 

who has 

[00:24:45] Dawn Gibbs: in the last couple of years missed 50 something days 

of 

school, 

that's gonna be difficult 

for 

us 

to 

help that 

student achieve.

You know? Now if, if we deny a student and the [00:25:00] parent were to. Call, why was my student denied? And we have a conversation. There are times that I've, you know, said, okay, I understand this is what happened. a parent was sick and this child was staying home, taking care of younger siblings, whatever the case may be.

 those are conversations that we certainly can have just because 

a 

student's been denied. That was just the initial step. 

 

But we'll go through the process of, letting them know when the orientation will be. So we also then have an orientation. I think it's 

[00:25:30] Meredith: important 

when 

[00:25:31] Dawn Gibbs: students 

come 

in, 

I wanna 

get to know the parent.

I want the parent to get to know me. We need to put names and faces together. I want you to know that you can call me and that we can communicate about what's best for your student. 

We are vastly different. I typically say in my orientations that we are kind of like a marriage between traditional 

school 

and virtual school because yes, our students are in a virtual environment via Edgenuity.

That's how we're able to put students through more courses quickly. but they still 

have 

a teacher there. 

That is providing that support and monitoring their progress and making sure that they're on track. All of those things, that you 

[00:26:12] Meredith: don't 

necessarily 

[00:26:13] Dawn Gibbs: get via a, a COVID or an entirely virtual experience.

You know, there's the, 

the sweet spot 

is 

that yes, it's online and that's how we're able to move students along more quickly, but. There's that teacher there that helps fill in those gaps and recognize 

[00:26:32] Meredith: those things 

[00:26:33] Dawn Gibbs: that each student may need to be more successful 

in 

the next step.

[00:26:40] Meredith: Yeah, it sounds like a, a very thoughtful 

process, 

 and such a, such a far cry from the stereotype of we just send the bad 

kids 

to 

that 

place over there.

You know, it's, it doesn't sound like that at all. So I'm so grateful that this is, a resource in the community. Any final words before we 

[00:27:02] Dawn Gibbs: wrap up?

Well, 

my kids are not bad. so even, even the ones that

[00:27:07] Meredith: tell em, tell 

[00:27:07] Dawn Gibbs: that. 

[00:27:08] Meredith: not bad.

No, I think that's 

important 

because 

there, there is that, that stereotype there. and when you see something in that light, you don't also see it as a resource.

And when you don't see kids as like future, you know, members of the community, that also really puts everyone behind. 

[00:27:28] Dawn Gibbs: Like 

it's a 

deficit 

for everyone, right.

So our behavioral reassigned students are, 

you 

know, they've 

made 

one 

major 

mistake 

that 

got '

[00:27:36] Meredith: em 

removed 

from 

school. 

[00:27:38] Dawn Gibbs: I can't think of anybody that I know of that as a teenager didn't make one really stupid mistake. I'm just eternally grateful that, you know, they are not, 

[00:27:48] Meredith: documented 

[00:27:49] Dawn Gibbs: for me, um, you 

[00:27:52] Meredith: um, you know, 

as 

a 

Gen 

Xer, 

[00:27:53] Dawn Gibbs: but but My 

kids need 

a 

second chance and we give them that. I, I tell 'em when they come in or we tell 'em when they come in, that we take 

very seriously 

that it's 

called Second 

Chance, 

everybody can make a mistake.

It's, 

it's 

how 

you 

address 

that 

mistake that makes the difference for you. And we use a lot of the same tactics with our second Chance kids academically that we use with our Excel kids trying to get 

them 

back 

on 

track. 

 We can't change 

what happened, 

but 

you can 

change what's gonna happen next. now's the time 

[00:28:28] Meredith: for 

you to 

learn 

from 

this 

[00:28:30] Dawn Gibbs: and 

go 

back 

better off academically than you were when you came.

That's a big part. We wanna make sure that when you get back to your traditional school again, you've got those tools in your toolbox that are gonna help make you more successful when you return. are we 

always successful with that?

No, 

[00:28:50] Meredith: but 

[00:28:51] Dawn Gibbs: you know, 

[00:28:53] Meredith: the term 

[00:28:54] Dawn Gibbs: bad kids makes you think that there's fights going on and all that kind of stuff at our school and, and that's not the case.

We probably have a lower 

ratio 

of 

behavioral instances than most of the typical schools. One, because we have 

fewer 

students, 

but. 

The other side of that is, you know, the biggest problem we have on our campus 

is 

getting 

our 

kids 

to 

leave when 

it's 

time 

for '

'em em to go.

[00:29:20] Meredith: that's a problem to 

have. Yes. It's, thank you so much for sharing this today. I, I can really tell that it matters 

a 

lot to you 

and 

I appreciate 

what 

you're doing. 

thank you so much 

[00:29:28] Dawn Gibbs: for 

having us. 

us.