Ep 165 | Elementary to Middle School: Making it easier?

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So it's really anything that we're doing in our school or she's doing in her school that would allow us to just have more children enjoy that experience. We're going to open up any door and every door that we can.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambia County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. We've all been nervous on our big day. We overthink what to wear, who's going to be there, what to say. I'm talking about middle school. The jump from elementary school to middle school is a rite of passage for parents and kids alike. And it's also one filled with worry. My next guest are the principals of Bailey Middle School and Helen Caram Elementary School, working together to turn apprehension into an opportunity. Today they're going to talk about this new collaboration and what it looks like and address the questions you're likely already thinking. Raising up leaders and transmuting tension, education to the core, Tara Palaciano and Amy Roby. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Oh, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Glad to be here. So let's start by setting the stage of where these schools are in relationship to each other and in relationship to Pensacola generally, because they're not downtown. They're not Cordova Park. They're not north of the county. So Tara, you're the principal of Bailey. Where are you located?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

So we're on the west side, almost to the Alabama line, Perdito area. So Sorrento kind of if you're traveling 98, hit Sorrento meets an area. It's a beautiful space. It's about five minutes from the beach.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

And there's like a state park like Turkin or something. Yes. Okay. And how close are you to her?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

We are right next door. And so our PE areas meet together. So we're just a fence apart.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

So this was a really perfect collaboration opportunity because just the proximity is there. Absolutely. And everyone agrees that making that transition from like elementary to middle just could use all the support it can get, right? Because it's awkward, it's difficult. And this is a good solution, but this seems like a unique collaboration. Is there a guidebook y'all are following or y'all are the guidebook?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

We're making it up as we go. Yeah. We are. We know each other personally on a personal level. So when we found out that there was a desire for us to collaborate, it felt natural for us. So we got together for coffee one day, kind of went through some plans, things we're already doing, things we thought would be great for kids moving forward, and we created it.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

That's exciting. Amy, on the elementary school side, what do you see the little ones going through as they're kind of towing up to that line, the threshold of middle school, going, oh gosh, this is where we're going next. How do they feel? What do they say to you?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

I think they're just mostly nervous because it's very unknown. They don't really know what to expect. And it seems so big, you know, from we're coming from, you know, tiny little Helen K Row, their little Helen K Row bubble, and going into a big sea of a lot of other kids. And so it's scary for some. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Because they have also one teacher, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

When you're in elementary school. Yes, most from kindergarten to fifth grade, they mostly have one teacher. In fifth grade, we kind of departmentalize. So we have like one teacher teaches reading and social studies, and one does math and science, and they flip-flop during the day. So they have a little sense of another teacher, but it's not anything like middle school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Cause when they get to middle school, they have multiple, like they're changing classrooms almost like baby high school.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yes, every 47 minutes. And then they have four minutes to get to their next class. So they have seven teachers during the school day.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Oh my gosh. And you have a child who's not really a child anymore. No. They're 30, I think you said. She's 30. 30. Okay. What was that like for you as a parent when you think back to that transition?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

So I vividly remember the first day that I dropped her off at middle school. And she was always a car rider. She never rode a bus. You know, I had to keep my little baby in her little bubble. And I remember dropping her off and sitting in the car rider line as she got out and walked into this school. And I just thought, wow, this is a huge transition. And I remember being on the verge of tears. Like I almost want to cry about it now because it's such a big deal when your children go from elementary to middle school. And it's scary. It's you've kept them not only in a bubble at their tiny little school, but in your house and have out a lot of control over a lot of things. And now this is their first step out into what you feel like is the real world. And it's a big change.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Oh, that is a big change. And I think that is part of the reason why parents could be leaning in right now as we're speaking, going, okay, what do you guys got? Because they are feeling viscerally what you're saying, but they're also one foot in, one foot out, going, I don't know about this. You know, middle schoolers are smelly and mean. I don't know if I want my sweet little baby who's excited about crazy sock day to be around people who are vaping. You know, like, right. So maybe can we address some of those issues? I want to hear more about what this looks like at the moment, the collaboration, and what it will look like in the future. But I want to be respectful that the listener might be distracted by their own thoughts of smelly vaping versus sock day, right? So let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

So I think it is a lot more sensationalized than it is. Do we have kids at school that choose to vape? Absolutely. The fact of the matter is it's a minor issue. I would say over the past school year, we might have had six or seven kids who were caught with a vape. Does that mean that some children had some that they were not caught with? Sure, of course. But we're very intentional about having adults in the hallway, adults monitoring bathrooms. We've created a very safe space as well. So children feel very comfortable coming and reporting things to us when they see it. We've taught our children how to make reports to Crime Stoppers in Fortify Florida. So they have the ability to report these things in an anonymous manner to keep our school safe. But this whole idea that we have groups of children standing in a bathroom vaping is just not what's happening. For the most part, children are going to class and doing what they're supposed to be doing and they're interested in learning. And we also have Crazy Stock Day. We don't stop doing that either.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

We continue to do all of those fun things. Wait a minute. Is this part of the collaboration, Amy? Like when, because I guess I'm thinking that these themed days are an elementary school thing. I don't know. So when they're like, you know, wild hat day or come dressed like a hundred-year-old person day, is that something that the two of you swap notes on and you collaborate?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Well, we have like mentioned it, like Tara said, I want to be involved in that. You know, when I was talking about something fun we were doing, she was like, Yeah, we need more of that. So it could definitely be a thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

It's in the notebook that y'all are making. We're gonna add it to the notebook. It's in our um, yes, in our guidebook that we're creating as we speak. Okay. So I think parental fear number two is a big one, and that's bullying, right? That, you know, middle school girls are like vicious packs of hyenas seeking whom they can devour, kind of thing. Like, how does that address with a collaboration? Is that made better? Like a hundred percent, no questions asked. Could it be making it worse, like early onset of these bullying behaviors?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

I don't think bullying is as big as like kind of like the vaping. I don't know that it's a huge issue. I think that some kids are mean and we address, I mean, I'm sure you guys do too, like whatever we get reported on, we investigate and we handle it. But I think just making the kids feel more comfortable, like with this collaboration when they're gonna be seeing Bailey kids more at Helen Cairo and gonna have opportunities to go to a basketball game or go to an event at Bailey, I just think it eases their nervousness, you know, about anything. And the bullying issue is something that is frightening for some people, but I just think them feeling more comfortable and like Tara said, having a safe place where they can always come and report it. And that's, you know, we do that too. We don't tolerate it.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Well, that's a good point. I didn't think of the confidence piece because at its core, bullying is fear being expressed, right? And insecurity being expressed. Usually that kid is modeling behavior they see at home, or if not, just like acting out based on something that's off kilter internally. So helping the kids to be excited about the next step in their education and oh, look at these big kids, they have crazy sock day too. You know, they're silly with us. I'm sure that's not the solution, but I'm sure it is a huge piece of the puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Also, I we're planning to have some collaboration with students on projects, especially like our gifted students, collaborating with some of the Bailey students on different projects. So I think that's also gonna help because if there's, you know, new sixth graders in the hallway and they see a face that they've worked with on a partner, you know, or that they've just seen in the hallways at Helen Cairo when they're volunteering. I mean, that's just like another layer of comfort that that's gonna provide.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

And I think we're also attempting to be very proactive in teaching children to be kind and to be empathetic a lot of times when that's not being taught explicitly at school, because we can't just continue to depend on the world teaching it to the children. And that's become another role for us inside of the school building. And so through Leader and Me, which we're both going to be, we were a leader and me in school this year, Amy will be one next year. It's very much focused upon the seven habits of highly effective people. And it really focuses on teaching children to not only be proactive in life, but to make sure that you're doing things that are going to help you succeed and to synergize all of that together. And I think through that, we're explicitly teaching children maybe you could say that a different way to another child. Or if you're seeing that somebody is not being treated kindly, we're not expecting you to intervene. But it's important for you to let an adult know so that we can help that child. Because unfortunately, the world is mean. It's just not mean in middle school, it's just not mean in elementary school. And it's a perfect time for us to teach children so that they can be productive later on.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

What a good point. Because it's not like high school is rainbows and sunshine when it comes to interpersonal interactions. And even the workplace can be, you know, not always friendly. And so being able to fortify young people at a young age, not with other behaviors that make things worse, but through the leadership model, that's another really creative approach, I think, because we don't often equate the solution to bullying being leadership. You know, we think, oh, just be kind. There's more of a passive connotation to that, but you're talking about a pretty proactive approach with LeaderMe. Another parental concern is bus riding. You even said it. You were afraid, Tara, to put your kiddo on the bus. Does this mean that kids who are five and kids who are 14 will be sharing buses?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

No. They're gonna maintain their own bus routes, they're gonna stay on their own buses. And we've heard no news or information that will change. So the busing and transportation model is remaining the same. And our school hours.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Our school hours are remaining what they are currently. Which is a concern that teachers may have had is will this change my hours? Is this going to alter what the teachers have to do as far as workload?

SPEAKER_00 12:09

No, not at all. I mean, I think for my teachers, elementary teachers, it's gonna make things easier because the Bailey students, they already come, a lot of them come and volunteer in the mornings before their class starts, their school starts, and they help the teachers. Like, you know, we rely on them a lot. They're very responsible, very helpful, take on a lot of extra responsibilities at our school.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Is that a normal thing for middle schoolers to come do at an elementary, or is that unique to this partnership?

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I mean, there may be a few others. I think it's really unique to us because we're so close together. So we have some students whose parents work in the building, and so their middle schooler comes and they we put them to work for that two hours before Bailey starts, and then they just walk over to Bailey and start their school day. And then we do have some that, I mean, they specifically want to volunteer. Their parents drop them off at Cairo in the morning and they do the same thing. They work in a classroom or they help in whatever way, and then they just walk over to Bailey.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

That seems so unique to me.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

When they volunteer, what kinds of things are they doing? There's one particular student who she worked in a kindergarten classroom all year long, every single day. And she was practically teaching the class. I mean, she led all the morning routines, like all the morning, you know, like we call it like a family meeting time where that we sit circle time or whatever, and they share their good things and they talk about the calendar and all that. And she was pretty much leading that. And then we another one really helps my music teacher a lot with especially like productions and things. And they're just around, just anything we need, we grab them.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

What's the elementary student response to that? Are they more receptive, do you think, because like, oh, it's another kid. This is a cool older kid. Yes, they adore them. Yes, absolutely. That's so cool. What else does this collaboration look like at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Well, it looks a lot like us figuring out what events can include both of our children, which is almost everything we do. We're looking at potentially we have a drama club and I've spoken to the drama teacher. She's super excited. She wants Cairo students to be in her next production. So that would look like her parents coming to an evening event where their children will be in our middle school play. We're hoping potentially that children at Cairo who are ready for more advanced music instruction during the day potentially will be able to walk over and jump into those classrooms and be able to play along those middle school students. Bailey has a very strong arts program, as does the Scambia High, and we feed into them. So it's almost a natural progression that we would do that. We really want to look at our students, my students particularly, helping her students set up their leadership binders next school year, because that can kind of be a big task, I think, for a kindergarten class. Every student in our school is going to have their own binder where they're tracking their data, attendance, discipline, testing, any awards or rewards that they get, that'll be in that binder for them. And we want to go over and help the children at Cairo set that up. So it's really anything that we're doing in our school or she's doing in her school that would allow us to just have more children enjoy that experience. We're gonna open up any door and every door that we can.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

That's really interesting. And physically, you said the buildings are close to one another. Most of the buildings that are school buildings have some sort of perimeter fence around them. Does this mean the kids would have to exit the fence temporarily to no? No.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

So our basketball court backs up to your play area. Yeah. And so the district, we requested to have a covered awning installed, and it was installed within two weeks. The sidewalk was poured, they're gonna be putting up an awning. So the children will always be behind a locked and secured fence when they walk from Cairo to Bailey, and we'll have adults walk them over and meet them and bring them along the rest of the way. So they're never gonna be out on the main street, they're never gonna be walking the back road. They're literally going to take the pathway between our two schools, which is at the back of both of our campuses.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Is there any truth to the rumor that you're gonna combine mascots? Well, we might.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

It would be fun. Yeah, we've talked about it. Maybe just a collaboration mascot. Like a fun think of a little name. Yeah. A bulldog holding an anchor. Yeah. Yours is a bulldog and yours is we're captains, and so we use like an anchor or like a boat, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

I kind of wish I could be a fly on the wall to these meetings that y'all are having this notebook, you know, this proverbial notebook that we're talking about. I would love to be and watch you write it.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Well, teachers naturally love to plan, right? Lesson planning, being creative, and we don't get to lesson plan anymore. So this is kind of our little miniature project.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Oh, that's so true. Do you have a like a way to get suggestions from parents or from outside community members?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

We do. So we both of us have a school advisory council, which is made up of parents and any stakeholders. We have, you know, wide variety. And so when this whole thing started, I guess a few months ago, I met with my school advisory counsel and kind of just told them like this is what's this is what we're thinking about. And we had a really good discussion and they asked a lot of good questions and we talked. And then our next school advisory counsel, Tara, came over and her school advisory counsel came and then we all met together. And she was able to answer a lot of questions and tell them about Bailey and all the great things. And it was, I think it was very beneficial. They were, my parents were very happy to hear, you know, all the things.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

And I think that's just a big piece of it. They want to see that we are working together, not that it's just lip service, but that we're doing it. Miss Roby came to our sixth grade expo night in April. We have this big event where we have all of our next year sixth graders come. And I said, Hey, can you come? And she did. And she was there, and her kids were just excited to see her there. So I just think we have a lot of opportunities. I know your PTSA had mentioned wanting to work with my PTSA. So I think it's just a great opportunity to get all of those voices involved and see what they feel is best for their own children.

unknown 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

And I think just combining our resources and just building this bigger community where it's not like, you know, oh, we're scared of Bailey Middle School, you know, but we're it's a part of us. It's been a part of us. And so we're just a big family down there on the corner of power and Sorrento. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah. I can kind of see how the relationships that are built in this process, the collaboration, the, you know, common interests that you're helping to bring to light, like, oh wow, this student who is two years above me is interested in drama. I'm interested in drama. Let's say they both end up going to the same high school. Then, you know, that I think that's a very this might sound overly simplistic, but like it makes for a better community because then you've got people in the community who, I remember you from middle school. I remember you from elementary school, which kind of leads me to my next, and I promise final difficult question is about boys. There's a lot of research in developmental psychology that suggests this is the time frame where boys really struggle. They start to question different parts of their friendships, their place in the world, their identity. They begin to have some mental health changes without the language to express these changes. And it can lead to violent behaviors against themselves, against others. And so it's a really just a beautiful opportunity for boyhood and becoming, you know, productive young men in society. Do you have any thoughts about what this collaboration can build in for those little boys?

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Well, I know at Bailey we have very strong male mentors. And so it's a challenge. Uh obviously, the field is much heavier with women. It's a very female-oriented field. But we are very lucky to have quite a few men on our campus who are interested in mentoring boys, talking with boys, guiding boys, helping them understand what those feelings and emotions are. Again, you know through explicitly teaching leadership, it's also teaching boys that it's okay to be unsure of how you feel. It's okay to want to be a leader. You don't have to do this thing over here that other kids are doing that might not be the best choice for you. Um, so I think it's just being very intentional and recognizing that they do need a different set of opportunities and then providing that to them. I also think it's important to recognize that they're not just athletes, right? So boys love to read, they love to play chess, they love to do, they love to debate, they love to do all of these things. And we have those opportunities at the middle school level. And I can just see us working together to kind of have the younger children have that opportunity that before they hit that period in life, hormones, middle school, all of that, that we can get them more involved earlier and maybe that transition and those emotions are a little bit easier to manage.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Go ahead and find their niche before they even get there.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

And I think the having the, you know, boys come to Helen C Row and spend time with our kids and be able to be a leader to small children. I mean, that, you know, when you give of yourself to someone else, you always receive more. And I think that's the that would be the beauty of it for, you know, a sixth grade boy.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Absolutely. Incredibly memorable. They will remember it forever. So it is time well invested, as is this collaboration, because like we said, it creates something that it transmutes something that is filled with anxiety and not feeling sure of what is this and who am I in this, to something that's exciting that they can look forward to. Are there any other future plans in this invisible notebook that y'all have that you want to share before we wrap up our time today?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

I think we're just excited to be able to work together and to be able to collaborate together. And because we are our little small community out there in Perdito, and this is a perfect way for us to bring ourselves together as one family, one community, instead of it being such a scary thing that school across the yard.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Well said. Well, thank you, ladies, for joining me today. We look forward to hearing how this goes in the near future. So maybe you'll have to come back for an update. Oh, that would be great. That would be great. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

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