Ep 136 | Vaping: Are our kids at risk?

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Even if you inhale one or two inhalations, it can damage your lungs real bad. I had another sixteen year old who basically the these vaping devices and their lithium batteries and stuff, they can start fires and they can explode. So it was in his pocket and it it burned his entire leg, the upper leg, and he needed a skin graft to recover from that. It was horrible.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. No one wants their kids to have bad habits, but every parent knows they have to choose their battles. One battle many parents are fighting is vaping, with nearly 25% of high schoolers and 15% of middle schoolers reported to have regularly vaped. My next guest is the chief of pulmonology at Namors and someone who is passionate about equipping parents to talk to their kids about the dangers of vaping. Today he's going to help us understand the consequences and how to have an honest conversation about it at home. Educating and equipping, working for a healthier tomorrow, Dr. Okan Alidimer. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Hi, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

So how do we know what the consequences of vaping are? Are there studies? Are people looking at it?

SPEAKER_02 1:39

There are several reports. First of all, I would like to emphasize that to understand that smoking, regular smoking, causes lung cancer took us about 30 years to figure it out. There was a 30 years lag between widespread smoking among adults and us understanding that it causes lung cancer.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

So And that was a really uphill battle, too, because there was so much power behind big tobacco.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

They were trying to hide it and stuff, but still the point I'm trying to make is the long-term impact of vaping is still unknown. It is thought to be less carcinogenic than regular smoking, but we don't know. There are many, many chemicals, heavy metals in the vaping uh liquid that can lead to cancer in the long run. There are, of course, short-term health effects too. So one of them is basically nicotine impact. Nicotine is a highly addictive substance. It's actually more addictive than cocaine or heroin. And it increases your heart rate, constricts your blood vessels, increases your blood pressure. There are many bad health effects of being on nicotine. And the problem with vaping is that the amount of nicotine in these vaping liquids is extremely high. In one regular cigarette, you get about one milligram of nicotine in your system. In a two-milliliter liquid or vaping liquid, if you finish one, you will be getting about 20 to 40 milligrams.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

So that's like smoking an entire pack of cigarettes in one setting.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

When you vape, how easy is it to go through that amount of liquid?

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Very easy. You can probably within an hour you can finish it. And it's much more easily absorbed into your system. It gives you a you know high in parenthesis. So it's even more addictive than cigarettes to have that pure high-dose nicotine in the vaping liquid.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Inside with no colour.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Exactly. And those devices, they especially the one that Joule one was created as a flash drive and small so that students can hide from their parents and teachers and use it in the bathrooms all the time. So unfortunately, they are getting our kids addicted to this. The promise is that the marketing point is that it's healthier than smoking cigarettes. And it's a fact that the cancer risk is less with vaping, but it's not healthier. There are many other reasons to worry about it. I said nicotine is one of them. And then there's a condition called evaluation, that's an abbreviation. It's called e-cigarette vaping related lung injury. So basically, this was an epidemic a few years ago, and thousands of kids and adults, of course, got this. It's a very acute respiratory failure. It damages the lungs so bad that many people died with it. Many people ended up in the ICUs. And I actually had a personal experience with one teenager in our hospital. She was a 17-year-old and from a prominent family, a reputable school. And before the prom night, apparently they were hanging out and stuff. And then the next day she was in the ICU with low oxygen. And when we asked, Did you do something? Did you have fever? You know, typically we asked, Did you vape? Did you smoke? And she's like, No, no. And then her mother actually got a little bit upset with me because I asked her daughter would never do such a thing. How dare would I ask if this angel was vaping? You know, she was really upset with me. And then we ordered a urine drug screen. We typically ordered that in all teenagers, the pregnancy tests and drugs, these are routine tests. It came back positive for cannabis. So clearly we knew that she had inhaled something. And then when we confronted the next day, she admitted that she vaped from boyfriend's vaping device. And that's how even if you inhale one or two inhalations, it can damage your lungs real bad. I had another 16-year-old who basically these vaping devices and their lithium batteries and stuff, they can start fires and they can explode. So it was in his pocket and it it burned his entire leg, the upper leg, and he needed a skin graft to recover from that. It was horrible. There was another one, uh 15-year-old, who the vaping device exploded in her hand and it caused a hole in the hand. There was a hole through and through hole.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

And they had to put a uh skin graft and bone graft to cover that. Yeah, it it is uh I mean final one I'm gonna mention to you is it exploded in the mouth while vaping and broke like all three front teeth. Yeah, they're all gone. So these things are really dangerous. It can cause serious health effects.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Well, the the health effects, you know, the argument that it's healthier than cigarettes, I like how you're pointing out, yeah, maybe, but there's all these other considerations.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

And we're also talking about children. So what are the particular dangers for children to have high levels of nicotine? Like let's just say there's no questionable additives. In a best case scenario, it's a very safe additive. Let's say the device is safe. Just from nicotine alone, are there special considerations for developing lungs and brains?

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Yes, developing brains, especially. It can cause behavioral impact and in your attitude and it can cause hyperactivity type things. It's a stimulant and it's it's not something that you want to expose your young child. And the biggest worry is it vaping could be a gateway to smoking later. So it's it's marketed as safe now, but when you start vaping at 14, 16, and then you can move up to something bad. In addition, the the these liquids are not FDA regulated. What you put in there is there can be illicit administrations like fentanyl could be added there. I mean, my I have two teenagers, and my biggest fear is like them trying something just once and that thing having fentanyl in it. So, I mean, I'm not a paranoid person and I trust my kids, but peer pressure, hey, do you want to try one way? And then boom, you're gone.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Well, also like different generations kind of view that kind of teenage experimentation differently. And they might view it with innocent eyes. Like a parent might say, Well, you know, I snuck out and had a few drags of a cigarette, or I drank a wine cooler here and there. But what you're saying is it's kind of a different world now.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Exactly. Things are very different than when we were teenagers. It's it's much more dangerous, and you don't know what's in there. And there are also many other chemicals. Cancer-making chemicals, formaldehyde is in there, acrolein is in there, there are like seriously dangerous things in those liquids. And and one other thing that we forgot to mention is the flavors, they add flavors in. There's over 7,000 different flavors are created to make these more appealing to young children. I mean uh from Oreo to you name it.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Like candy, candy.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Candy, exactly. I really worry like one of my children loves mint, and I'm like, if they they do have mint flavors too.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

So but so how do you handle when the parents are also vaping? Because I think that's tricky. What you're saying is this is marketed towards children, it appeals to them, even if it wasn't marketed to them, because it's forbidden, because that's always like a part of the ingredient, right? But a lot of a lot of adults vape. So how do you handle that whole part of it? Because it's like, do as I say, not as I do.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Well, I think if they are vaping because they used to smoke and they stopped that bad habit and kind of downgrade it to a less dangerous habit, they can make a case and say, look, I was addicted before, now I'm trying to wean myself off. This is not something you start with. So they can try to justify why they are vaping. And of course, I recommend all adults to stop vaping too. The same dangers are true for them too. But don't do what I do is a good way of saying it. I mean, you just gotta explain to the teenager.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

How do you suggest parents start that honest conversation with their kids? Because what I'm hearing you say is step one is to be honest with your kid about your own behavior, which can be really tricky to do, right? Because sometimes we are not even honest with ourselves. But it's let's say a parent is past that stage and they want to start an honest conversation with their kiddo just to see where the kid's at. Like, do your friends vape? Have you heard of vaping? I think parents struggle with not wanting to put the idea in the kid's head, right? Because we all remember the DARE program actually backfired. We don't want to do that, but in our own homes. So how can a parent, first of all, know if they should have that conversation with their kid? And second of all, how do you suggest that they start that conversation in an age-appropriate way?

SPEAKER_02 11:36

I personally do like I can share with you what I do with my two teenagers. I just regularly talk to them about drugs. Vaping is also included in there, any type of drugs. And neither of my kids drink any alcohol. They don't sneak beer or anything. Actually, I sometimes, my 17-year-old, you're gonna go to college tomorrow. I think you should and no, no. So my kids are so scared of drugs and addictive substances because I've been talking to them for years.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

And I I tell them So successfully brainwash your kids that you're telling you. I did.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

And one thing that I tell them that, like, look, if you get in trouble, just come to me, tell me what it we'll find a lawyer, we'll we'll help you. I'll I'll forgive anything and I'll I'll support you in any ways. You're my child, I love you. But there's only one thing that I will not support you, and that's drugs. If you get on drugs, you're on your own. I will not tolerate it, I will not let this happen. Do not come to me with addiction, drugs, this and that. So if you ever touch it, then we're done. So they are very scared. Maybe it's the right way of doing it or wrong way of doing it, but that's my parent. I'm not recommending this to everybody, but that's how I did. Because I'm so scared of drugs and addiction myself. Uh I'm very heavily brainwashing my children to stay away from these things. And I do ask regularly also when they get together with their friends, so what do you do? Is anybody vaping? Is anybody doing drugs? And the answer so far has been no. And there's no way, of course, being 100% sure. I had brought up secretly checking urine screen on them. My wife vetoed it and said, Nope, we are not gonna invade their privacy. We're gonna trust them and they're gonna trust us. If you do that, then that will not be good. So I don't recommend parents to sneak on their children. Just be open and talk to them regularly. And even sometimes you get the rolling eye, oh, vaping, talk again. Dad, I don't do drugs. I mean, why do you keep just do it once a month, bring it up?

SPEAKER_00 13:44

That's interesting that you say like bring it up regularly, because I think some of the times with these more difficult discussions, it's tempting for parents to go, well, I did that check, never have to visit that uncomfortable situation ever again. But you're saying it's the repetition of those questions. And I like how you worded it. Or any are your friends vaping. So you kind of know what pressure maybe your kid is experiencing.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yes, yes. I think that's the way that this spreads friend to friend. I mean, they're not marketing in front of the school. Right. Somebody gets it. I one thing that puzzles me all the time is these are 14, 15, 16-year-olds, and these are they're not supposed to be buying them, right? Where are they getting it from? So there are some parents who are a little bit enabling or thinking that maybe well, if they wipe a little bit of nicotine here and there, they won't get addicted to some other more serious substances, but that's wrong. That's actually the beginning of everything. Once you are satisfied with nicotine, you're gonna look for something else, something stronger, and next is not gonna be better.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

You open a door for your child to get addicted to substances.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

I've heard some kids say, I I don't vape very often, and I do it just because I'm really stressed out. How do you help your kid deal with stress when that's the motive for them to vape?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Well, there are many other ways of with stress rather than getting addicted to anything, like go take a walk, go release some energy, do some exercise. One of my children gets on the bike and rides for hours and comes even if it's too hot or cold, and that's the stress release for that one. And the other one goes to the gym and pumps some weight for a few hours and comes back better. So definitely there are non-chemical stress relievers that they can seek. And this could be different for every child and every family. You know, go fishing with if if you have some rods and you like fishing, go fishing, get some fresh air out there.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

What are some signs that uh people's kids might be vaping? Are there any things that parents should be looking for?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

They it doesn't smell like cigarette smoke, it's so you cannot do that. But uh the device could be seen and if you see that or or the m amount of money they're spending to get the liquid to put in there, so you might want to monitor where they are spending their money or how they're getting it, but there is no specific finding physically on the teenager to say they're raping or not.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

I've heard kids buy it from other kids through social media accounts, so they would just like Venmo each other. So you're saying maybe monitor their Venmo?

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah, a lot of this is based on that trust factor for sure. In your practice, and certainly in your professional circles, you must have lots of conversations about this. Like vaping is probably top of the conversation agenda everywhere you go. From your vantage point, what is it you think that prevents parents from either A understanding the severity of vaping, or B understanding the prominence that their kid might actually be doing it? What is the what is the the thing that's holding people back from going, hey, this is crisis level, we need to stop?

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I think any level is crisis. So as I mentioned earlier, even one inhalation can get you in big trouble, can ruin your lungs or even kill you if it is contaminated with fentanyl or something else. So in my opinion, any level is critical. But if you have a teenager who's doing it daily, every day, and cannot go without it, then yes, you need to seek some mental health professional.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

But do you think it's the advertisement it that is causing the barrier for understanding the severity? Do you think it's just I just think it's odd that we really put cigarettes in that negative category, even socially? Haven't you noticed like, oh my gosh, who smokes anymore? You know, oh, they're smoking a cigarette? Oh, gross. Oh, I can't date someone that smokes cigarettes. It's really taken this full reversal socially, and yet we have just put it in a different device. The same companies are essentially behind the sale of these new versions of it. And suddenly we're all brainwashed to think it's somehow better or cleaner or different. Is it just that mental part of it, or do we need more evidence? In your mind, what is it that we need in order to make this be taken more seriously?

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Since this came out 10, 15 years ago, the marketing label on it was this is a healthier version of smoking. And that's kind of got into our bloodstream and thoughts. And so everybody thinks that it's innocent, it's better than smoking. So that image needs to be replaced. We need to fight with that. This is not something very innocent. It and it can seriously harm our children. They should not get addicted to this. But the damage has been done. So now we need to same thing as the spread of regular smoking, that how much how many years it took for us to clean that. Yeah. So we could uh do the same thing like this podcast that you're doing hopefully will help eliminate at least some people from getting into it.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, let's hope so. And let's hope that like a lot of things, generation to generation, those shifts are made in what's cool and acceptable and what's not. So it may hopefully it doesn't. Yeah, but it may uh change with the next generation. Are there any resources that are available to parents and students to help support quitting or to help support those conversations that you were talking about?

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Definitely we are available. If they want to come make the child talk to me, I'll try to brainwash them out of it and explain the dangers of vaping. Actually, if you go online and look at the dangers of vaping, there are so many articles and and resources that explain all the all the possible bad outcomes from vaping.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Aaron Powell Do you have any particular online resources that you have vetted?

SPEAKER_02 20:26

So I have actually suggested that Medical News Today is a website that you can go and read about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

I'll put that link in the show notes for everyone because we want this information to be as practical and actionable. Mm-hmm as possible because parents have so much on their plates and they themselves are trying to deal with stress. And so they want to try to help their young people grow up to be healthy and happy. That's a lot. It's a tall order, as you know, as a father of teenagers. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

You're welcome. I thank you for reminding me.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of the Scambia County Public Schools.