Ep 108 | Learning to fail: Critical skill for success?

SPEAKER_03 0:00

They become more confident, which is really a great thing, especially with middle schoolers, because in middle school you're so concerned about all the social that it's hard to jump in and do the things.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambi County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. As a parent, you have lots of hopes for your kid. Of course, happiness and health, but you also want them to be the kind of adult who knows how to problem solve, recover from failures, and take initiative. But how do you get there when your kid has selective hearing? My next guests are leveraging a school elective that makes creative problem solving into a competition. They are part of the Fairy Pass Middle School's Odyssey of the Mind program where seven out of eight of their teams advance to the state level. Odyssey of the Mind is an international program designed to help students grow as confident learners and team members. Today they're going to share five benefits it brings in and out of the classroom, combining interest and passions, leveraging teamwork and individual gifts. Melissa Hughes, Cherie Stoker, and Sophia Warley. Thanks for being here, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. So, Melissa, you're the regional coaches representative for the Board of Directors for Odyssey. That's a long title. Can you please paint a picture of what Odyssey looks like in the schools?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Odyssey is a creative problem-solving thing. So we're teaching things like brainstorming and teamwork. And once they get used to working together, how to conflict productively. So basically, when you sit down and you have a difference of opinion, how do you express that without putting the other person down and still manage to do it? Because if you can't ever raise your objections to an idea, you're not going to get a better idea. A lot of what we do is kind of follows the engineering design process or the design process where they come up with an idea and then they start brainstorming ways to solve it and then they try something or throw out an idea and then they build it and it doesn't work the way they expected it to. And so then they modify it to try and get it closer to their ideal. And then they might go back to the drawing board because they realize that even though it does what they wanted it to, they could come up with something even better. And it's interesting because the first couple of times they're doing it, a lot of times it takes them a month or two to create their first thing because they're so afraid that they're going to fail. But then they make it and it fails spectacularly. And they're like, oh, and they're like, well, what do I do now? It failed. It's like, okay, how are you going to fix it? And they're like, wait, we can fix things. And it's that idea that what they create isn't the end point. That first project is not it. We don't give them a grade and stop. You get to go back and make it better. And it creates a whole different mindset because then they're not afraid to grab materials, throw something together and try it because they know that even if it doesn't work the way, they're going to get a chance to fix it. They're going to get a chance to improve it and they're going to be able to bounce back from it. And they start to learn from their mistakes and they start to build on that and they start to really create something that is impressive and is phenomenal. And they become more confident, which is really a great thing, especially with middle schoolers, because in middle school you're so concerned about all the social that it's hard to jump in and do the things.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

Oh, yeah. That's so true. How does it fit into the curriculum? Is it an after-school program? Is it an elective class that they're attending?

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Yes, both. Oh, okay. We have an elective class and then we also have the after school component where they, because basically they're on a team of seven. So there are the things, the general things like the brainstorming and the paperwork and the things like that that we go over and we get them familiar with their problems and we teach them different skills. And then then they take it and they do things beyond the classroom. And what they what you really need when you're working on something like that is a good chunk of time that you can work. And with classes only being 45, 50 minutes, the after school, we tend to have uh in the beginning at one practice a week and sometimes they go to more, but it's usually a chunk of two to two and a half hours. So they have a big chunk of time. So if they start a project, they don't have to stop midstream. Because there are some of the projects that once you get into them, you can't really stop until you finish it. If you're in the middle of constructing something and putting it and, you know, attaching different things, you might have to finish the thing you're putting together because if you stop, it might fall apart. And so yeah, they they need that longer chunk of time. Plus, it gives them a chance to work in a room with just the seven of them and not have all of the other teams with all of the other noise and chaos. And so it lets them kind of focus. It also gives them individual attention. I've been really blessed at Fairy Pass because we have a lot of teachers who are passionate about the program. And I I I honestly blame that almost entirely on Cherie Stoker because she is she is the most wonderful person on the planet. She is very nurturing, very caring, very warm. She pulls everyone together. And so as a result, there have been a lot of teachers who have been willing to help and who have been willing to do the thing. And because of that, every team has somebody who's working with them so they get that individual attention, even if they're all meeting at the same time. And that's really phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Well, good job, Sheree, for making it look like something people want to be a part of. And actually that leads us to our very first benefit, which is uh practicing collaboration. So you're the Odyssey sponsor at Fairy Pass, and a seventh grade science teacher. Yes. And a parent of an Odyssey kid. So I feel like you have a really good perspective. But what does learning and practicing collaboration look like in middle schoolers?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Well, with Odyssey specifically, they're working when the group is seven, they're creating their solution to their problem all together. They have to come up with their own props, their scripts, that ultimately they do an eight-minute performance. They also have a competition factor where they have to compete in a spontaneous problem where they go in a room with just them and they are given a problem right on the spot and they have to solve it together. But just it's all about collaboration and working together and coming up with creative solutions.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Wow, that's incredible. Now, Sophia, you're an Odyssey student, and the second benefit of Odyssey is learning how to fail. But as a student, I'm pretty sure that was my number one thing to avoid. So, what does learning how to fail mean in Odyssey? And how what's your been your experience with it?

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Last year, the second year I've I did it, we were trying to figure out a backdrop to use or something. And so we're like we had a plan, we're like, we're gonna make this big cardboard tri f trifold, and we spent like weeks on it and it didn't work. So and then we're like, okay, that's fine. Let's make another one and it did work. So I mean, instead of focusing on, oh, it failed, wow, what are we gonna do? We're like, okay, it's fine. We tried something, it didn't work, now we know not to use that, and now we have something even better to use.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

Did it freak you out at first though, that you had spent weeks on it and it didn't work?

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah. We we were trying to figure out like how to reuse some of this stuff because we spent so much time on it. And but I mean, we got over it and we ended up winning with the thing that we made.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

So you won with the thing that you made? Yes. Oh, well, that's a big turnaround. Has your change perspective on failure impacted you outside of Odyssey? Has it helped you in any other area of your life?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Yeah. Even just like everyday things, like if something doesn't work out or if something doesn't go my way, something or anything, I'm just like, oh, it's okay, because then I'll find something better.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Like Oh, because then I'll win the championship. Exactly. This is just my setup. Wow. That's I mean, that's kind of a big deal to be able to learn that now and not have to, you know, struggle to learn it later.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

Melissa, the the third Odyssey benefit is initiative. And I feel like that would be hard to teach, is it?

SPEAKER_03 9:01

It really is. You can't really there are several of the skills in Odyssey that you can't really teach explicitly. They have to kind of experience it and see how it happens. In terms of initiative, one of the big things that exists in Odyssey is there's a rule against outside help, which means the adults can't help them solve the problem. We can't suggest how they solve it. We can't help them make the things. We can teach them skills outside of it. So, for example, if they wanted to learn how to use a sewing machine or if they wanted to learn how to use, you know, a piece of machinery, we could teach them how to do the thing, but not onto the project, and then they could take it and apply it wherever it was. And so what happens is they're having to come up with those solutions. And similarly to the failure, at first it's a little intimidating because you have to come up with the solutions. And a lot of times when you're in middle school, you haven't had a lot of things that you've had to come up with the solution entirely yourself on. You've had that adult help, especially when you're a sixth grader, you're just coming into middle school. You've had, and so, and and it's a funny age because in middle school they feel like they should be able to control things and they should be able to be independent, but a lot of them aren't quite ready for it initially, or they're hesitant to do it, or and so it really is a point where, well, this is entirely up to you kids. And I might be here as an adult, but I can't help you with this. I can ask questions that are open-ended, and I can teach you a skill if you want me to teach it to you, and I can give you 10 different ways you could do it, but ultimately you have to decide how you're going to approach this and how you're going to fix it and start it, or it's not going to get done. You started Odyssey 14 years ago here, right? Yeah. I I started it at that time. I was at the Pat Center, and I had been at the Pat Center for about a year. And it surprised me because having been a gifted kid, I remembered we would have projects and we would immediately dive in and we would do the things and we would try the things and we would use whatever was there. And when I was when I first started at PATS, I started, I started to put the projects out there and the kids would go, Well, how exactly do you want us to do this? Well, what do you want us to use? Well, and I I was like, what? And and I was trying to figure out something. And and then it in all we were we were losing middle schoolers. They would say, Oh, well, I did the same thing in elementary school, so why do I want to continue this? And so it wasn't meeting whatever it was they were looking for. And my husband competed in Odyssey in Virginia back when he was in high school. And 20 years later, he was able to tell me every single thing he did to solve the problem. And for a gifted kid to remember something in that much detail that they did 20 years before was huge. And so I was like, well, if this had that much of an impact on him, maybe it's something that would fit the kids well. And I looked into it and found out that there was a that we there was a region that included Pensacola. Pensacola just didn't have any teens, but Pensacola is part of the Emerald Coast region, which is kind of centered in Okaloosa County because it extends all the way from here to beyond Panama City. And so I contacted the people and said, hey, can we do a thing? And and it turned out there was a lady holding a coach's training in Santa Rosa County. And so I was able to go one county over and kind of learn how the thing worked. And we were like, okay, well, we're gonna try it. And I thought I was gonna have one team and taught the class, and we ended up with five and one in each problem. And the kids really got into it. And the parents got involved. And and when I was there, most of the coaches were parents. And it and so it also gave them a chance to be involved in what their kids were doing in a way that was, you know, they weren't stepping on their toes because the kids had to come up with everything themselves, but they could still be a part of everything, which, you know, that's a big transition for parents from elementary to middle school to suddenly not be able to not really have all the volunteer opportunities that you have in elementary school when you're up there every week.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Oh my gosh. I didn't even think about like, you know how we're like five benefits. I didn't even think about benefits for parents. You're you're totally right because sorry, parents, I didn't think about you. I was just thinking about the student benefit. But that that taking initiative piece, speaking of parents, Cherie, is an important one. I want to know though, does that translate it at home? Because you know, you see you hear parents talk about, oh my gosh, why does the kid not see the sock on the floor? They could just pick it up, you know. Well, you didn't tell me to pick it up. Well, it's on the floor. Pick it up. So is that is that working? Is that translating in the house?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Somewhat, I guess. I know that my children personally who've been in it, they they definitely are better at solving problems. I don't know that they're better at recognizing a sock on the floor. Okay. That's yes, and and I will say they have lifelong friends that they still talk to each other, the people that they've been on a team with for multiple years. And yeah, it's definitely, I think, made them better people.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

The other benefit is helping kids learn how to think, not what to think. But I I'm curious because this is a team setting, right? Right. And when you're in a team setting, you're thinking about the thoughts of others. The team, what does the team think? And so is it harder to teach students how to think and not what to think when you are working within a team atmosphere?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Possibly. I mean, they tend to brainstorm a lot together, so they think a lot together.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

One thing I've tried to do when I've worked with teams is I've tried to have it where a different kid is in charge of each thing. So for example, this might be the kid who's the leader for the costumes, and this might be the kid who's the leader for the script, and this might be the kid, and base it on what where they're they're interested in working, usually we ask them, and then but just kind of say, okay, well, you're in charge for this and you're in charge for this. And the goal is for everybody to be the leader in something so that they know that they're ultimately responsible for that thing, but it also means that they might speak up more if they know that that's their area. And so it kind of there are some things like that organizationally that you can do and say, hey, why don't you take the lead on this since you're into it? Or, oh, you have a lot of ideas on this. Why don't you take the lead on that and kind of nurture little leaders in the different things? But because they're leading those areas, they're more encouraged to speak up and they feel empowered. And um, another thing that I try and make sure of, and I tell them, you know, you're going to be disappointed if it's not there, is that everybody's created something that goes on on that they use for the thing as much as possible. Because if everybody's created something, then they're more invested and they feel more involved. But again, it's take initiative. So it's baby steps. When they first start out in sixth grade, they may contribute, they may not do as much. I had one little girl one year who spent her entire sixth grade year with her nose stuck in a book. And we weren't sure she was going to continue with it because she she would she we she would start reading whenever she had a break, and we weren't sure she was that into what we were doing. And then the next year she completely turned around. So she was learning everything that was going on. She just didn't quite know what to do. And her default when she didn't know what to do was to read a book. And but it turned out she really was paying attention, she really was into it. She just wasn't quite sure what to do as a sixth grader. So sometimes they they grow gradually and you're really surprised because over the summer, suddenly they go from that to, oh my goodness, they're doing all the things.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

So wow, I'm really starting to see the picture is coming together for me because I'm starting to see how initiative overlaps with collaboration and collaboration overlaps with finding your own, you know, space in what you think and not just doing what other people think because they not just have the collaboration, they also have authority and different okay, y'all are doing a great job. I think it's starting to click. So, Sophia, our last benefit is creativity. Here's a question though. Do you really think creativity can be taught?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yes. You can definitely learn it because I have. I mean, sixth grade year was probably it was still good, but I think I've learned how to be more creative and try and think more outside of the box the more I've been in Odyssey. And my whole team this year with eighth graders, most of us had done it before. I just remember like it was one of our first practices, and we were like, okay, so what are we gonna do, guys, for our problem? And we just sat down and started listening to music from a movie, and it was really weird, but we were listening to descendants music, and then we started talking about, oh, have y'all played that video game? And that's kind of how we got our idea for our whole Odyssey thing, because we're like, hey, what if we made a a video game play, and that's just kind of how it started. And I think that if we hadn't learned how to think outside of the box, we probably wouldn't have made that big of a connection.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

I mean, what you're describing is a startup think tank, which is so cool, you know, because you're valuing not just the hustle, you're also valuing the pause. And you're in that pause, you're finding inspiration. And how how special is that that you get to do that and y'all are like killing it. You're you know, you're winning things.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

That's that's amazing. I do want to say her rock band was the best rock band that I've ever seen. They were so good, it was so original and they were awesome. They they made a rock band? Yes, yes, with original songs and original instruments and the original instruments, yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Yeah, not all their instruments were original, and not only that, but their original instrument was like hidden in the backdrop. So they ended up pulling it down at one point. I'm like, where did that come from?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yes. Oh, it was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

I want to attend the show. I have a question for you, Sophia. Yes. So your eighth grade year, some of you were people who had done it all three years. There were a couple of people who had done it too, and then you had a couple of new people in it. Could you see the difference between the people who were eight who had done it all three years and the people who were coming in new in eighth grade?

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Um, kind of. I mean, to the start, the people that had done it before were more like outgoing and like, oh, let's do this, let's do that, like I have new ideas. And then the people that hadn't done it before were like, Yeah, okay, let's we'll just go along with that. But then towards the end of the year, they started making their own ideas or having more leadership, I I guess, and kind of just realizing, oh, I can say these things and they'll l listen to me. And yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

Wow, that's so cool. Um Melissa, what do you feel like people misunderstand about Odyssey of the mind?

SPEAKER_03 20:09

I think the hardest thing is because there are so many different pieces and parts of it. It there are some people who will watch your performance and go, oh, it's a drama program. There are other people who look at it and say, Oh, well, you're doing engineering, that's what it is. And and it's really, there are little pieces of all of it. It, you know, I've commented before that like Science Olympiad is STEM, Odyssey esteem, because it incorporates, you have to do it in an eight-minute performance, you have to solve the problem, which usually involves some sort of engineering or putting together, even if you're on a theatrical problem. They had to build a musical instrument that was functional, even though theirs was a performance problem. And so there, you know, there are all of these different components. They have a limited budget, they have to come up with everything themselves. And there really is okay, there's not one set thing that you can go, oh, well, this is the same thing as that, because there are so many different pieces. And you have to solve a problem when you go to competition. There's a little 10-minute problem and everything is there, and you have to pretty much sit down and in 10 minutes brainstorm and solve the problem. For example, I just, I, I actually just got back from Judging at World, and the problem that they were doing was a hands-on problem where they were given materials, they set out 15 cones with holes in the top, and they had the kids had to come up with a way of creating a a chain that would go through the holes in the different things out of straws or yarn or rubber bands or paper plates, or, you know, they had a collection of materials, they had to come up with how to use those to make that chain, and were scored on how many cones it connected and how creative their ideas were and everything else, which by the way, I couldn't have talked about this if we weren't done with world because you're not allowed to talk about any of the spontaneous the kids can't talk about the spontaneous problems till after world finals because they use these problems in different regional tournaments and different state tournaments around. you know, the different areas. And so however, since world is over. Yeah, but but that's what they did in the room. And it was and they again they had eight minutes to do it. That's incredible. That that so they had to go from from brainstorming to solution and do all the things in eight minutes.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

I mean there's kind of an element of improv there. I mean it's problem solving, but you also have to make people care about what you've done, which is sales by the way. So there's so many layers to these benefits. I'm so glad that y'all have came on and and talked about this. Sophia if a student is listening to this and thinking oh I don't really want to sign up for more homework how would you respond? Why should they give it a second thought?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Well one I wouldn't really call it homework. It's kind of it's kind of like it's school but it's not it's like your own thing. It's not a set thing. Like you're like okay you have to write this essay you have to make this project you get to actually do what you want to do which is something that I don't think most teachers like I mean obviously they some but that's not really part of like the traditional school curriculum.

SPEAKER_04 23:16

You have to follow the curriculum and every student I think whether you're in middle school, high school or you're in university, you think, oh man, I wish I could like really dive into the subject because I'm into it. And this is like you diving in.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yes. Like you can do you can be like oh I really like blah blah blah and then focus that on that instead of having to do a different thing that you're like okay whatever. I don't really like that. But I think it's just it's your version of school or your version of homework.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

I like that. That's really cool. Where can parents go? What website what link if they want to learn more about Odyssey of the mind and can they request it to be in their school?

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Yes. You can request that it go to a school the hardest thing with getting it in a new school is finding that teacher or that person who is willing to work with the teams. And if you can find that teacher or teachers and then it's usually not hard to get a program started. Well the national site or the world site is www.odysse of the mind dot com. We also for our region it's emeraldcoastodysy dot org and that gives the information about the thing and if you if you look on there I'm one of the coaches representatives Melissa Hughes and if they send me an email we can talk we can come out and show it. In addition July 20th they are going to be having a summer summer spontaneous event at Shoal River Middle School in Okaloosa County. The information about it is on the website or again if they send me an email I can I can send them the information but it's that one they're going to just pull in whatever kids want to attend and they're going to put them on teams and let them try it out. So if a parent would like their kid to try out the things and see what it's like they're gonna the it's a it's about a two hour event where they can come in and kind of try out the different things and see what it's like and see what it is. In terms of starting a program, you can start a program as part of a school you can start a program as part of a community group and just kind of pull together a group of students and start a team it went my older son wanted to do Odyssey in high school and none of the high schools in the area had it. And so he talked a teacher into being the sponsor and they did it for one year. But then after that teacher ended up moving to another school and so he they talked one of the parents into coaching a team for them and they put together a team and they basically just split the cost between the seven kids and they put to they they put it together and they got I believe the local Star Trek group the USS Continuum to put their name behind the team and so they were the USS Continuum Odyssey team and they went forward and they did their they did their their whole problem with that name.

SPEAKER_04 25:59

I mean basically for that team the problem solving started when they were like we need a team how can we get a team I love it. Thank you ladies so much this has been really cool. I appreciate you thanks for listening be sure to subscribe and share Voices United in Education is a production of Scambia County Public Schools