Ep 107 | How is one couple changing our schools?

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Well the thing about the two of us is that's how we connect because we're we're we're very close in beliefs and things that we share. And so she's also as transparent, direct. You know where she's coming from. There's no in between. Caring. She she does care for her her staff, her students, or whatnot. Um innovative. She's always thinking of trying to figure out other ways to do things that's different from other schools, uh, kind of like me. You know, she's a dynamic person. And she inspires me whether she don't, you know, she knows it or not, but she does. She's that type of person that's gonna go the extra mile or whatnot. And so she she's a dynamic person, dynamic leader.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambia County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. Work, play, raise a family, succeed, repeat. Is work-life balance a thing when you both have the same job? My next guests are both principals at Escambia County Public Schools on the rise with some of the highest satisfaction surveys. Today they're going to share their unique perspectives and paths to education and each other. Escambia County's power couple, Dr. Kimberly Thomas and Mr. Derek Thomas. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Thank you, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

You are some uncommon lovebirds, I think. I mean, you've been married 19 years. That's pretty uncommon. You are both principals in the same county. Also uncommon, and you're both killing it. So here's what I want to know. Who asked who out?

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Probably me.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

What was the line?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I don't know. I don't remember. Did you ask me out, girl?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I knew I had an interest in you. Well, I am cute. We have a unique story, so we grew up not even, what, two minutes apart from each other? It might be less than that. Yeah, like across the street. Like across the highway. Oh, wow. Literally. And we never knew each other in Pritchard. Like he went to a different high school than I did, so we didn't cross paths.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

How did you live across from one another, but not kind of the same high school in Pritchard, Alabama?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

So he went to the high school across the street from his home, and I went to a high school on the other side of town.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

She went to the bougie school.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I went to a magnet school. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

You know.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

And so um he was a freshman when I was no, I was a freshman when he was a senior. And so we just didn't cross paths, but we met at my dad's house.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

But the funny thing is our families are very close friends. And I would be at her relatives' house, she'd be at my relatives' house, but we never saw each other.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Never crossed paths. Yes. Our grandmothers lived across the street from each other growing up.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Okay, so what you're saying is you were pre-vetted. Your families, you know, even though they didn't think about to introduce you till later, you were pre-approved.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Well, uh, you know, I was approved, of course. I'm that guy. Um I had to work her in, but we're good.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

We're good, we're good.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

And was it your sister that introduced you? Yes, my two sisters. So he stopped by my dad's house and um I was like, hey, who was that guy? And they was like, Oh, you don't know Derek? I was like, No, I don't know. And they was telling me that, you know, this is Gene's nephew, dad's friend, Gene. I was like, Gene Thomas, they was like, Yeah. I was like, oh, he's kind of cute. That was cute.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

They kind of made it work.

unknown 3:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

So when y'all started dating and you're, you know, as lovebirds do, talking about future visions, what's going on, what your plans are. Did you both share that you both had a vision for educational leadership?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah. Um, of course, as a man, you know, I always think different, but like how she kind of helped me. I was weird. I wanted to be like a forensic science investigator, FBI.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Jump out the outplaying special ops guy.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

So the answer would have been no. No, I was not planning my educational leadership future.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

But but leadership.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Oh, I see. I see. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

The leadership thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Tactical leadership.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

There you go. But yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

And so she convinced you to go into education instead?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Not really, because I was already in it. But um seeing the things that she's done and watch her in action, it kind of helped me, inspire me to go do it. She's been an inspiration for me for us in that part and helped push me to go to different levels with it, even in the classroom when she would do different things when she was in kindergarten. I taught fourth grade. She was like, You need to do a small group. I don't want to do a small group. But I tried it. Love it. You know, wouldn't wouldn't do anything different.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

So you exchanged notes early on on what was working and not working. Correct. Yes. And did you always want to be a principal? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

And actually one day I was superintendent, even. I mean, I have yeah, I have, I mean, I always knew I wanted to do education. It was a passion of mine. I always wanted to teach. People always saw leadership qualities in me that sometimes I didn't see early on in my career. But I kind of moved quickly just into various aspects. Became a literacy reading coach at the time, and then decided I wanted to pursue my education. I just went straight through school. And one of my professors was like, hey, you should consider doing your doctoral degree. And I was like, whoa. Really? She's like, Yeah, I think you have what it takes to do it. And I'm thankful that Dr. Pilcher and Dr. Laure convinced me to do that because it's been a great opportunity and has opened many doors for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Well, you kind of took the macro approach from the beginning, you know, from looking at like the big picture of leadership. You worked with student education, right? So, which is all like really big. I call them big because I feel like they're the perspective is big of leadership concepts. And how has that impacted your style at CAWICE? Because CAWIS is a unique place. We've covered it a few times here on the show. And so it might require like unique approaches. So I'm just curious if if your macro background informed what you're doing now. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Um, I was able to just gain different types of leadership styles, you know. From each journey, I've learned something different. And I think it has really helped me cultivate and just be molded and grounded into who I am and how I approach leadership every day. I'm a servant leader at heart. I'm very authentic. I'm very real. You know exactly where I stand at all times, most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Let me confirm with the the audience here. Is that correct, sir?

SPEAKER_02 7:13

That is correct. Okay. You get that with up with us both. That's great. I love it. Same way at home.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Serving leadership, um, authentic, and just it's all about serving the people.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

And you had more of a micro strategy with your leadership because you were like in it. You were in the trenches and doing the thing. You were at every what, every elementary except for every middle, except for like three. Right. And observing what works and what doesn't. So what's your take on your secret sauce to leadership at Workman?

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Well, it's a it's uh, you know, it's a bunch of things that go together for being in fourth grade at Sprince Bibbs, where I started, and then going to fifth grade, and you can kind of see the dynamics of the youth change um with their attitudes and the way they think. Then one day I just decided to pursue my master's degree um in leadership. And so at that point, I took on the dean's role at Warrenton Middle School, and then I got a chance to see the same students that I taught, you know, at at middle school. And that kind of led me to know that the middle school age needed me the most. Because in elementary school, you see a lot of, you know, nurturing, loving kind, a lot of females, you know, not many males that at that time need that tough love. And so I decided to, at that point, to pursue middle school. And everybody thinks I'm crazy for it. But it's my opinion is middle school is where we lose a lot of our youth. And, you know, it it takes a special person, a special group of people to be in their lives and be with them daily so that they know that you actually care for 'em. Because they they change every day. And that helps me to go into work man and know that you never know no day it's gonna be the same. We dealing with middle schools, but you got to have that backbone and that stat that you know that that stigma to just go in and dive in and work with it. And it just helps me to hopefully that goes off to my staff and my other administrative team that they know you don't know what you're gonna get today, but they know that I'm there with them. They know that I would work cash register in the cafeteria, uh, custodian, teacher, dean, whatever it takes to make work and work, that's what I do. And it's starting to move over to my my staff and my students. You know, when I first got there, they trash would be on the ground, they see me picking it up. Now I see them picking it up. So it moves on.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah, by example. It sounds like the micro works really well in that specific scenario because you said the kids, they seem to be changing day to day by day. And so you have to have an up close look at what's going on to assess what they need.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Correct. Yep. Got to get in their world.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

And you mentioned your teams, and that's something that you have said off mic is really important to you. Can you tell me about Dr. Thomas, your team and how they help you with success at your school? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

We can't do this work alone. It takes the team, the entire team, the assistant principal. I'm fortunate to have a curriculum coordinator. And being a community school, I have an extra layer of resources and team members that we all work together and we make this happen. But I could not do it without them. They are that glue that just holds everything together. I mean, we constantly communicate and collaborating. It's just it's a great thing to see in action. This week we're going through certification through UWF as a, I'm sorry, through UCF as a part of our community partnership school program. And just to hear the interviews and to kind of sit back and just kind of hear people talk about our school. It's just been very refreshing to know that, wow, you know, I kind of I'm a piece of this and that we all work together for a common goal. And that's the ultimate goal are the students.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

And it's so interesting how different your schools are because C, I mean, CAYS is different from like all of them, though, to be fair, you know. Right. And you do have the community support, community sponsors, whereas workmen, not so much. Right. Behind the scenes, do y'all brainstorm on how to increase community engagement because of your different perspectives? Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

I'm constantly sharing my resources with them. Oh Roger.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

I mean, but it it's it's hard for us because we don't have that extra support as she had with the community school. But my team is is so awesome that I will present them with an idea and they make it happen. Um and they always know when I come in to work. Like I was up at 3 a.m. Oh God. Cause I always come up with some kind of weird idea or something. No, my mind is always going and running, and I always come up with ideas. They call it crazy ideas, but it works. And it's so it helps workmen work. And we're just, you know, I wish we could have that support, you know, more from the community. And I'm gonna try to do my best to get out in the community and try to get more support so that a lot of stuff we do for our staff, sometimes our students, it comes out of our pocket. My APs, myself, and some more of our admin team. But, you know, we we try to keep that morale and everything going, and that's the only way we can do it. So we do what we have to do to make it work. And that has helped us keep, you know, 85 to 90 percent of our staff. And so, you know, we were planning today, and when I can look at my GMS and say, well, I really don't have an open spot, you know, it's a good problem. Uh so it's the team approach, knowing that they know my expectations, they know what to expect, and the the the students see that because they see us as a unit, you know, and they know they can't play on us and know, you know, I said this to you, and I said no, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

So interesting. Yeah, so the student knows our our whole approach, and and I and I say it to anybody, I got the best team in all the middle schools right now. I'm very competitive.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Just as we both are.

unknown 13:37

Very competitive.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

So, what does that look like then at home? Do y'all to end up talking chop a lot? Oh, absolutely. Everything is a competitive moment.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Everything is competitive.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

It even went to our children, it's kind of sad.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Who has the best satisfaction survey score?

SPEAKER_02 13:53

I don't know. I don't either. You got the numbers?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

I don't. That's not something I get to see.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Well, me.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I think he might, seriously, this time. Oh, okay. I'll let him have that one. Okay, okay. I'll I'll let him one-up me on that one.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So, um, since you are the leader in the satisfaction score we just decided, um, what do you feel like parents should know about middle school or workmen middle school specifically that they don't? What are they misunderstanding?

SPEAKER_02 14:25

They're misunderstanding the things that's in social media. A lot of things that are in social media are before us, um, but they don't know the team approach, the whole family that we have at Workmen, the vibe, the cultural, the shift that we've had. It's a great place. Uh, we have a new theme of motivation. Uh, it's all around the school. And we actually have, you know, a whole little acronym, everything laid out for it. And I tell people, because I know you know everybody, the biggest thing in the district is a lot of people take their students out of middle school and go private and come back from high school. And my thing for that is I just want parents to know that even as a father of a middle school, and not finna be had the girl, now the boys coming. And to see the dynamics of that, not only from my own children, from all the rest, it's not about public or private. It's about the, this is my opinion. It's about the parent has to be in tune and tangible throughout their middle school career. And you're gonna have to have those hard conversations where it hurt your stu hurt your child, your student, and hurt yourself at the same time because again, they're so confused. They don't know what they want to do, what they want to be, who they want to be. And you have to be right there with them, holding their hand the whole way throughout middle school. So if it's public or private, I mean, that's just what it is. And my opinion, you know, I came up in public middle school, uh, so did my wife. But it's it's that it's that family approach. It's that being hands-on, knowing what's going on in their business, they're gonna hate it. But later in life, they'll appreciate it. You know, I'm blessed to have my partner here as, you know, we, you know, like I say, we have our own middle school, so you know, you have those issues and things, but I just want parents to know, give us a chance. Know who we are before you're quick to judge us. Not go off those old ratings that you see in the system, but get to know us, come see us, come talk to us, and come work with us. I want community help. I want hands in hands with the community so that because we're a centralized location and we have a very diverse, very diverse campus. And it goes along with the district theme of, you know, everyone can learn or whatnot. And we we have that population. We we just want that support from the community. Come on in, work with us, and and see what we do. A lot of people come in and be like, oh wow, it's not what I thought. You know, even substitutes. We get subs now. It's like sweet.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

You know, how would you describe your vision for your school?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

My vision is, and you know, my team has said, and I had to give my secretary props too. She's she's awesome. So, but my my vision is I want to be different. You have your your brown bards, you have your ransoms, you have all these places. Why can't workmen be that place? And to the fact that I'm super competitive. Now it's it's over to the kids to when scores come out, they come immediately come up to me. I went up in this, my levels is this. And so that's what I want. And I always tell them, let's go get after these other schools. Why can't you be the best school? And so I want our school to be the best. Innovative, thinking outside the box. And my theme was when I got there, is when workmen works, the world's gonna listen because everybody wants to figure out what is workmen, what are they doing? What's going on? And the buzz is starting to get out. So just look out. We we're coming. Oh, we're coming.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

We're coming for the big I love that you've like made it contagious to the students that they are now invested in doing their part to boost the the status of of the entire school. That's powerful and that's empowering too, you know, because a student on the opposite end could just kind of there could be a shrug and just like, oh well, I go to a a not so great school. But instead, they've taken pride in to know we're gonna elevate our own status by our individual uh efforts.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

And they'll tell you, you're not motivated today. And so they'll tell you. Yeah, that Ms. Thomas, you're not motivated today. So it that checks me.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Oh. So the students come up to you and say, Mr. Thomas, you are not motivated today.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

So, you know, that's that's Wow. Yes, that's that it's spreading. It is. Yeah, so that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

That is, that's really interesting. What about you, Dr. Thomas?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

What's your vision for your so our biggest thing at at WISE is that we are building leaders. I mean, you hear it all the time. And again, it was interesting to hear today in the student interviews, it came out. You know, we know that we're leaders. We know that this school helps us to build our leadership skills. And so that's that's really what we want to do. Um most of the time, your your problem students or your most difficult students, they have leadership skills. They're just utilizing them the wrong way. So it's our job to help veer and shift that leadership approach to more positive things. And so that's what we've been doing, and that's what we do at WICE is that we're we're building leaders.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Military students, we're the only middle school with R O T C, you know, so just that's leadership.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

And we're the only elementary school with health ambassadors, sir.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Just because you have all that support from your community, school.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

You know, that maybe work making it be a community school. Right, you too. All right. You know, all right, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

All right, you remember that game show? The love boat?

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Okay. Um, you remember maybe it's not the love boat. Maybe it's one of those dating games where the one answers for the other and then you the other holds up a sign to see what's correct. We're gonna do a little bit of that. Oh boy. Okay, it's just one question. You'll survive it, I promise. Okay, so Dr. Thomas, I want you to describe your husband's leadership style. How would you describe it? Not how he kind of described it already, but from your vantage point, how do you describe it? Transparent.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Very transparent. Um servant, servant leadership.

unknown 20:36

All right, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Caring, although sometimes it may not come across that way. He has a hard way of showing it, but deep down is very caring and nurturing. All right, your turn, sir. What you want me to say? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

All right.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

I would say the same for her. I mean, the the thing what the thing about the two of us is that's how we connect because we're we're we're very close in beliefs and things that we share. And so she's also as transparent, direct. You know where she's coming from. There's no in-between. Caring. She she does care for her style, her students, or whatnot. Um innovative. She's always thinking of trying to figure out other ways to do things that's different from other schools, uh, kind of like me. You know, she's a dynamic person. And she inspires me whether she don't, you know, she knows it or not, but she does. She's that type of person that's gonna go the extra mile or whatnot. And so she she's a dynamic person. Dynamic leader.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

That's so sweet. Aww.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

That's right. Yeah, getting brownie points for later.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

You are getting brownie points. This has been really cool. I'm I'm so glad that we could do this. This is Been really fun. Understandably, we've not done an episode like this before. It's a first. But it sounds like both of you are at the front line of firsts, CAYS and Workmen, firsts that have happened and first that will happen in the future to come. So the only question remains is who will be first between the two of you. So stay tuned. Absolutely. Any final words before we sign off?

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Um, just want to make a plea to the community. You know, whether you've had a bad experience with education or I don't know. But don't be afraid to come into the schools and to try to get to understand and assist where you can to the businesses out there. Um, we need your support. You know, most of our school dollars are allocated and already earmarked for certain projects and tasks that we can't do, but we would like to do more for teachers and staff and students that we can always do. So the public support, businesses support is it's much needed right now. It takes all of us, and we just want to do what, do our little part is what I always say. I'm just doing just, I mean, a little part of this to try to make a bigger impact. And that's just what we go into this each and every day. Just trying to do our little part because at the end of the day, it's really just we're just a little piece of the puzzle.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Well, I I want to come from, again, the middle school, because that's the lost, you know, I think that's the that's the lost area in the community. And that people are always there for elementary, bringing the cookies and things for the celebrations. You come back for high school. Middle school is where if you look at data uh for crimes and different things, you look at the age group. And my plea to the community is let's come together better with this middle school age. Uh give the public middle schools the opportunity to work with their youth. Whether you're on the higher social or on the bottom, give us a chance. Uh we're we're we're good schools. Mine's just better, but we need you. We need that support. We I I want my doors flooded with community support. And when the students see the community involved and see their neighbors or see their football coach or see that baseball coach or someone that they interact with in the community in the school, that means a lot.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So because we see them on the ballpark basketball courts all the time with our students. And they they're like, wow, Dr. Thomas, you're here. I was working a concession stand one time, and one of my students, Dr. Thomas, did you get a new job? Oh like, no, I'm just volunteering.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Same with me.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah, they like to see you.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

And I'm do I coach. Uh I got suckered into that by somebody sitting next to me. But I but but now I I have an opportunity to a lot of the students that I coach this year will actually be at my school. So it'd be interesting to see the dynamics of how that works and how it changed their mindsets of academics and behavior. So I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

They might see you as a a real person a little bit more than like a figure that just lives at the school and you're not real, and I can say and do whatever, and that doesn't impact you.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

No. Very structured.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Well, thank you both. This has been fantastic. Thank you for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambia County Public Schools.