Ep 105 | Should we train kids to save lives?

SPEAKER_01 0:00

But since our goal is for children to live to their fullish and well beyond medicine is our Namur's uh motto, we feel like this gave us an opportunity to go to where the kids were so that they could really learn how to do CPR and be the first responder when wherever they are with their family or their community or their school.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambi County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. Most of us don't feel adequately prepared to handle an emergency situation, and we certainly can't help our kids train to handle one. This was part of the reasoning behind the House Bill in 2021 that ensured all public school students receive basic first aid training, including CPR. But it's one thing to read about it or watch a video. It's a very different thing to get hands-on training. This is where Namores and Escambia County Public Schools have come together to convert a concept into a class. My next guest is a pediatric cardiologist and VP and Chief Medical Officer of Namor's Children's Health Pensacola. She's also someone who, during Hurricane Andrew, saw firsthand the need for medical professionals and community members to come together. Today she's going to share why Namor's initiative to take CPR training to the next level is the right combo of practical and empowered. Leadership Pensacola graduate, full-time doctor, part-time cattlewoman, Dr. Mary Meta. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I feel like we should address the cattlewoman thing. Okay. So I, someone, someone, someone we won't name names, but sent me your bio and it said that you like to raise cattle. And here you are in front of me in a beautiful dress and high heels. I love high contrast individuals. But tell me where did the raising cattle come into play? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

I grew up in Texas, East Texas specifically. And I grew up on a farm with uh cattle. And after I went away to school and did my other career, I just needed to get back into that cattle. And it's very scientific now, so it fits perfectly. And so I'm really enjoying that part too. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

That's well rounded. Well, thank you. I think so too. I love it. So, why kids for CPR training? Why not their caretakers?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Well, we would love to train everybody, but since our goal is for children to live to their fullest and well beyond medicine is our Namur's uh motto. We feel like this gave us an opportunity to go to where the kids were so that they could really learn how to do CPR and be the first responder when wherever they are with their family or their community or their school. That gave us a good way to blend both the community needs as well as healthcare needs.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

So the idea is that children would be ready to help other children, but also that they would grow up to be adults who are also more well prepared. Is that kind of the general concept?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yes, that's that's the first concept. But then they're also maybe the only one in a family event or a community event that may have ever done or practiced how to give CPR. Because at a lot of the events that adults go to who are the higher risk for having a cardiac event, kids may be the ones that's right there beside them when it happens or can ask for help or can start CPR while they're getting the medical people on site. So everybody in a community is who needs to be trained, not just the adults.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

You bring up a good point that reminded me of when I took CPR training, it wasn't just about the, I don't know, mechanics, if you will. There was other aspects. And what surprised me was this is what always stuck with me is when you want someone to call 911, you don't yell, someone call 911. They instructed us to look at a person, make eye contact with them, and say, You call 911. And I remember thinking, this is so odd, but all these years later, it stuck with me. And so I can kind of see why there might be a reason for kids to learn not just the chest compressions, for example, but more of like emergency response elements. Are there elements like that that others who have not received training would be surprised to know that they're getting? Well, I think that's absolutely true.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

You've got to get the emergency people there and called, and that should be everybody's first response is to call for help. There also can be other people standing right around you that also know CPR that can help you do that once somebody goes to call for the medical people to arrive as soon as possible. And I think that's one of the things that we do mention to the kids that are once they start the compressions, even though it's a, you know, a mannequin that we're doing it on. And many of the kids have responded to that is once they start, it's like, this is tiring. It's like, yes. And that's how you switch off with people that other people that know it. You come up to them and you say, I know CPR, I can help you, and then get down there and really help each other and do because it is very tiring to do it. Do you remember the first time that you performed chest compressions? I do. I actually do. I remember it very clearly. And it was coming in with someone, and we were in a hospital situation, so there were multiple people that knew how to do it, but you could just tell when you walked in that that person was really getting tired of doing it, and that you could step in and help them, even to just give them a breather, even if they were a medical personnel, like a nurse or a physician, they get tired too. And you could step in there and do effective compressions to help while other things were being done. What did that feel like? Ugh, it was amazing to think that you were helping prolong, and that patient did survive. And so it was a very, very gratifying that you helped that person uh live another day.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

What latent effects do you feel like this CPR training is giving students? Like you just described the feeling that, okay, I learned something, I put it into practice, patient survived. That, you know, that gave you feelings and it supported you in ways that maybe your book training didn't. How do you feel like that's translating for the students participating in this CPR training that y'all are giving?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

I think that especially after living through COVID, a lot of people are hesitant to touch somebody or to help them. And that's part of what this hands-only CPR, they don't have to give the breath, they don't have to do the breathing. This really does prolong people's lives and that they can take their hands, push on a person's chest, and be able to help that person survive. And I think that just doing that compression themselves, they really can tell that it is work to do it, but that they can make a difference in that person's life.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

What does the training entail uh specifically? Like what does it look like when y'all are going into the schools? Is it classroom visiting style? You know, remember when you were in c in school and well, we have a visitor in the classroom. Is it like that or is it um, you know, gymnasium rally style?

SPEAKER_01 7:48

It is. We have done it in all of the high schools and it has been in the gym. They come in, sit in the bleachers as you would expect. We do give an introduction and give them a short video, which should be a reminder to these 11th graders of what the video they saw in ninth grade. And then they are the mannequins are all put out on the basketball floor. And so then they are able, they are assigned numbers and they go to that mannequin, either of three or four. And then we have a lot of volunteers standing around and encourage them, you have to get down on your knees to do this, and how that they actually will press on the mannequin and it has a nice little click so you can tell that you're doing it correctly, and they get to practice and trade off with somebody else that can say, I know CPR, let me help you. So we're able to let them give hands-on CPR.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Are there any specific scenarios that you go through in the training?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

We talk about coming upon somebody who's m just maybe passed out and what you need to do to call 911 to help, to try to shake them to see if they wake up and maybe we're just a little dizzy. Um, but if without response, you do need to start that. And so we go through that scenario. We can talk about someone their age, and a lot of times it's someone that they are in the stands with or they're walking in a street or a store that they found that would make it real life for them to be able to start the CPR.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Alyssa, who I call your queen of details, I gave her that title. I don't know if she'll accept it, but she sent me some really interesting information. And one of the things that she taught me was that sudden cardiac arrest is one of the leading causes of death among high school athletes. And I I was really shocked by that. But then I got to thinking about the training that you're offering the students. Are chest compressions the same on adults as they are smaller high school students?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yes. It is the same. Um, the same rate that you do it. You know, we do have them sing staying live, you know, to keep them at the right rate to do that. It really even high schoolers these days know that song, but it is only a little different if it's an infant. And so we don't really teach that at the schools, but we're mainly talking about their their other classmates or an adult.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Are there any stories of impact that you can think of from, you know, you went to every not you personally, but your team went to every high school this year and y'all made it right? You reached every 11th grader, gave them the option to have the CPR training. Can you think of any stories of impact that you feel really illustrate why this is an important goal?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

You could tell the ones that were really wanting to practice and that they wanted their classmate to help them. Like it was there a story behind that that they maybe didn't feel as secure about doing it, or maybe that they had knew a story of somebody. And the fact that they kept encouraging each other to, okay, come and practice again. I don't think you really got it, or the mannequin didn't work and they didn't hear the clicking sound. And, you know, they would say, Oh, you know, you didn't push hard enough, come try it again. And just us encouraging them, it's okay if they survive, even if they have a broken rib, but you really do need to push and do that. And I think that that sort of made their shyness about not doing it was really overcome by they really could save a life. And I heard that several times at the places I went. You heard them say the students say, by doing this, we could save a life. Yes. Great.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah. That's that kind of makes it all worth it. It does. It does. They realize what they were doing could really save a life. What's the goal for next year? Well, we would like to continue the process working with the school district that this would give the hands-on training so that they could practice. And we hope by word of mouth, because the ones we trained this year from 12th grade really can tell them, you know, if they talk across uh those seniors to juniors, to say it's really worthwhile going, you do learn something and get them to practice. And I think we got better too by each of the schools that we did. We could figure out what could bring the students out more and what made a difference to them of learning the scenario that made it worthwhile for them.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

You felt like the scenario painting in that realized situation kind of made them more engaged.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

I did, and at time and one specific thing, because we also did a little session on placing an AED, an automatic external defibrillator, and we pointed out where they were in their schools, and that was sort of a big thing of where to go get it, and if you're the one sent to go get that. But one of the scenarios that I had is I had some students and they had placed the mannequin right on a metal strip within the the gym. And after they acted like they didn't want to continue on doing that again, and I said, Now, if you just told your fellow people after you place that to clear because of the electrical shot that's about to be delivered, what if somebody's touching where that metal strip is? What would happen? And two of their eyes just flew right open. It's like that electricity would go right through that. I said, that's exactly correct. So you have to look, make sure you're not touching when you're going to deliver that shock, but also what's around you. And I think that really that scenario made it really hit home to them. You do have to look at more than just what you're doing, and it really will make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah, that sounds a little bit like more situational awareness and yeah, being present, all good lessons for teenage minds.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Even just saying if somebody passed out in the the uh stands, what would you do? Can you do CPR up there? And you know, there's like, well, we'd have to spread them out on one of the bleachers. The so it's they're flat. We couldn't do it half slumped. So all those kind of scenarios really make kids start thinking that they can think too about how to best do it, even if they've only had just this one practice.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Because up until that point, it was like, well, that's an adult job. Correct. That's interesting. So, I mean, in that regard, I could see how this simple training would start the transition developmentally for children to start to see themselves as tiny adults.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

They can make a difference. They can start it even before the more well-trained people may be there. And whether that's a coach or the school nurse or a physician or nurse or EMTs that come there, but they started it. They're the ones that made could have made that difference of minutes in brain health and heart health by starting it right when they came upon that person that needed their help. Oh, that's such a good point. And for students who have older parents or live with grandparents, that happens all the time. And or you're right, that they're visiting somewhere and there's an older person there that is much higher risk than probably they are. But a lot of times they don't know if there's any children there that may have already had heart surgery or had some other reason that makes them at risk for passing out or having a cardiac event, they're more likely sitting around the adults to be at a higher risk in that situation to help to not higher risk, but a higher ability to help that adult be survived by a cardiac event than their their teens.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah. Well, Nemours is pediatric specialty care. And today we're obviously focusing a little bit on the cardiac side, but there's more than that, right? There is.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

We only do pediatric specialty care, and so that includes cardiology and pulmonary, which is the lungs, endocrinology, which is all of the endocrine glands, including the pancreas for diabetes. We have pediatric orthopedist, uh pediatric uh ENT or odolaryngologist that specializes in the ears and the nose and the throat. I love that way. I know it's good. It is otolaryngologists. And uh gastroenterologists, and we have uh rheumatologists also who, you know, the children can get rheumatoid arthritis. It's not just an adult disease. So we do um specialize in that. And we have a very collaborative approach with all the subspecialists. So to just say you come and see a cardiologist is if you have a certain illness, you may need to see a pulmonologist too, because the lungs and heart are very connected and work together. So there is a lot of collaboration between all of our subspecialists.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Would that mean there's a lot of diagnostic care then for a parent who doesn't know what's going on with their kiddo?

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yes, we do a lot of our diagnostics and testing right there. Some things need more advanced imaging that we would do at a hospital, but we do a lot of our own testing that's very specialized for children, as well as the people administering the test, are also very trained in pediatric care and how to get more without any sedation. So if we can entertain them that would make them think they're playing a game to get the studies that we need, it just goes a long way. And it makes them not as afraid to go to the doctor or to express their opinion of what they're worried about. And that's part of what we do is really help kids become more responsible for their own health and how to transition from adolescence especially into adulthood. They need to be willing to step up and say, No, mom, that's not really what I'm feeling. Let me tell you what I'm feeling. And the same thing with CPR training, that they could tell the adult that's like freaking out next to them that I know what to do, you go call 911. I'll start CPR. I love that. Are there any final thoughts before we wrap up? No, I just think that we can help empower our community by each of these times that we train teenagers or children to be proactive and to take an event. And every year we do that is just going to make our community stronger and more ready and more resilient to help fight some of these illnesses that can be quite devastating to a community and a family.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Well, thank you so much for what you're doing. And here's to hoping that you'll meet your goal again next year. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Escambia County Public Schools.