Ep 104 | Can art inspire learning?

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You have an emotion, but sometimes you don't know where that emotion starts or ends. And if you have something to anchor it to like like the the concept of art, you can kind of like dive into it or you can build onto it. And when you're done drawing in that style or working in that that area, you can kind of like move on or appreciate something else about yourself or another piece of art.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambi County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. We've got to get through to them. We hear this often. The them is the kids. The we is every concerned adult. It's the how where we get all stuck. My next guest is an award-winning artist and alumni of MacArthur Elementary School who's lending his brilliance back to his old classroom. Known for his highly realistic portraits using crayons, he's helping students recognize their feelings and see their own hand. Today he's going to share the connection between art, uniqueness, and resourcefulness for students in Escambia County. West Florida graduate, fellow podcaster, giving back through art, Kenneth Jordan II. I'm so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Me too. You're definitely inspiring students on a lot of different levels. But I'd love to start by hearing about who inspired you as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

My family, most part, my grandmother the most. Just being able to stay on task and add meanings and reasonings to things and tend to eight uncles and aunts. It's kind of wild. And all like nephews and nieces were at our house. So that was the that was home.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Your grandmother had how many kids?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Eight.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Eight. And and so they were all f buzzing around and everyone was together.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

That's all I knew growing up. I didn't understand that that people didn't have that big of a family to like maybe middle school.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

So how did your grandmother inspire you within the context of you know the busy household?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Focus and care. Like she took care of things and she always put like care in what she was like being attentive to. So for me, I had like an inquisitive mind. So like she taught me how to slow down and like put something into what like whatever you're doing. And from there, it's like, oh, like I think I know how to like learn now.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Oh, interesting. That's kind of a hard concept to teach kids.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

To me, it's easier because they don't have so many things in the way.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Oh, okay. Expand on that for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

So like I'll break things down to like universal, like mental things and like physical stuff. There's things that we all like have, like we're all here, right? So there's some universal things we just naturally have. And then we do our own different things with our minds, and then we have our coordination or ability to like pull what's out of our mind. And so from there, I just you like you have like a goal journal, a dream journal, and like a physical planning journal. And I think just writing in each one of those, you'll be surprised how like they all synchronize at some point, whether it's a week, a month, or two. And you can pull like little tabits of mechanics out of it. And so for me, that's why I understood drawing over coloring. Because it was the the connection between one dot to the next.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Versus.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Um, versus just filling in a space. Like that's that's cool too. But anytime you like, again to learn something, you start to like attribute care to one area or the next, and then you understand it's uh it's widely different from the other side. And oh, we care about different things. And it's like, well, where's the in-between? You try to fill it up, and then you realize that okay, uh I filled it up with like a color. Maybe it should be a different color. Well, maybe I should slow down, maybe I should speed up. And now the the focus on how you do it tends to be more of a draw to or draw from.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I love that. You're talking about the difference between disassociating when you color, right? We have adult coloring books. Obviously, people are pretty big fans of disassociating. And then the difference with drawing is you are you're associating, you're putting your insides on the outside. Yes. That's beautiful. That's really cool. Okay, so why bring this to elementary classrooms? I mean, what you're talking about are pretty big concepts.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

So I just kept this concept concept since I was like little. I would fail art classes really early on.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Really?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah, and especially coloring.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Cause you wouldn't be in the lines or what?

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yes. Like I I wouldn't stay in the lines. But if we had like a week assignment, I would like ace the final assignment, but not like the step-by-step assignments. So if I reach the same goal, okay, I'm obviously looking in the right direction, but I'm just going like a different path, or I may be like too over-analytical about like certain things. But to me, they feel fun. I just remember being in elementary school, I feel like coloring in the lines all week. Um, we turned in an assignment at the end of the week, we got a chance to take it home. My parents don't help. They just you do what you do. I I turn it back in, it's finished. And it's like, hey, I think we want to test this kid for a bunch of other things because this was really good. So it's like like just talking to like my grandparents and hear them like speak like older, like they don't talk.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

They didn't talk down to you.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah, and just talk amongst themselves, like certain things would click. It's like, okay, I did do something. So now it goes, I'll hold on to what I thought. So for kids, it's easier. It's like, oh, I'll teach you how to hold on to whatever you think.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Ah, okay. So what does that look like when you're trying to help kids with that through art specifically in a classroom setting? Because that's different than being around, you know, your grandmother and overhearing conversations. You are kind of absorbing those lessons, right? But when you're when you go into a classroom and you're teaching a session, how is how are you communicating that to kids so that they also absorb it in that shorter amount of time?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

First, you kind of got to speak their language or match their like energy a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Oh, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

For me, it's just like listening to them for like for a good little bit. Like I'll say, like, I'll give simple instructions or keep it basic, and I'll watch like when I come into these spaces, I'll watch other and like teachers and like hey, straighten up, try to do this. But for me, it's like, okay, those kids are like a lot of energy and they gotta like bring it down, or you gotta pick this group up. So, like giving them a basic task as far as in like how to draw something, but telling them not to care about it wholeheartedly. You kind of like watch them.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Wait, is that an example of real instructions?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I'm telling you what, I'll talk to kids like this, and they all get it.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Really?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah, and I'll like I'll I'll I'll get a little bit more specific. Hey, like draw this, draw what you see. Oh, the kids say, I can't draw that, and that's not my main goal. So I'll say, Okay, well make this mark. Okay, look at whatever I'm telling you look at, and then make the mark. And he's like, they'll look down, it's like it doesn't look like yours, because I usually give them an example, and then I say, Well, make another mark. And he said, It's it's still not looking at it. I was like, Well, you drew it, and he's like, I can't draw. And I was like, You made a line, you did this, you did that, and then they'll they'll look their paws because I'm showing them proof that they did what I asked them to do. They just want it to look another way. So when I say your way looks good, let's work on your way, they kind of get quiet. And some uh some either revert or they kind of like move forward. So and at that point you just gotta know what to introduce next.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Wow. That feels like art psychology.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Well, I love it. I just don't I won't go into like psychology, like major in the stuff like that. But I'm just tracing the steps of what I did.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Well, your process seems very intertwined with emotions.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Absolutely. I'll say that emotions is a byproduct, or like you just kind of like naturally flow into it. Some people are just like more emotive than the next. But the things that come before the emotion is like a thought or feeling that brews. So I'll have the students like take a step back, we'll attribute like a color to a certain thought or a certain feeling, and watch them like pick their own without giving them like the red means this. I I don't really usually do that. I have them pick them pick their own. And as they grow, it changes. Because as I grow, it changes. Because eventually it'll break down to value. It won't break down to color. And when people get into value, then you can see the whole not everyone's truly colorblind. It's that we just don't coordinate our colors the same.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

That's really cool. So the the email that I think initially clued me into what you were doing was talking about how you were helping students know their own feelings. Is that what you mean by like not losing their hand, not losing their sense of self, or does that mean something else?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

No, that's exactly what I'm talking about. So you'll wake up this morning, how'd you feel for the last like five, 10 minutes? And kids usually don't have any too many things blocking that. So they'll just tell you how they feel. And I say, just pick a color, and then they'll I say make marks with the color. And then from from with that feeling or that color, we'll then go into like values of slowing down, speeding up, moving freely with no thought, and then okay, let's add, let's add another thought to it. And then we're working on coordination, like back and forth. And from there, it's it's not the same drawing to make it look like something. We're drawing an abstract, but they're drawing from like inside out.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Right. Yeah. Why do you feel like it's important for kids to be in touch with that part of themselves?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Because we all don't learn the same. And sometimes we get stuck in a classroom and some move like fast, some like fall behind, and it's not because they don't get it, it's just because you didn't put it in a way that makes sense or gives them like a meaning to do it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

When it comes to people valuing art, I feel like art is kind of an underdog. You know, people not universally go, oh, art, yeah, that's important to have in a school curriculum. And I I want your take on this because I feel like what you're saying has a lot of utility. A lot of utility. What you're trying to teach kids can help prevent a lot of problems. You know, we don't want angry or frustrated students. And if you're able to help the student recognize their feelings in a way that doesn't put pressure on them to write a a journal entry about it, you know, they can take and scribble with a red crayon, you know, it's cathartic for them, but it also teaches them, oh, I feel red crayon. You know, it's like almost giving another option. You could say I feel frustrated, or you could be red crayon. Um, but I feel like it's put possibly that other people see art antiquated to daydreaming. Like there's no utility to it. What what's your take on why art is the underdog?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Because it's a point of reference and it's it's a more like drawn out point of reference. So it's like you have an emotion, but sometimes you don't know where that emotion starts or ends. And if you have something to anchor it to like like the the concept of art, you can kind of like dive into it or you can build onto it. And when you're done drawing in that style or working in that that area, you can kind of like move on or appreciate something else about yourself or another piece of art. It's one of the first things and the last things that we kind of like see. We don't really have like words flowing in our heads. We kinda got like little images and symbols and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Do you think in pictures? When you talk to yourself, is it in pictures?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

At at one point, yes, but not not anymore. It's like it's like an amalgamation of like a bunch of different things. It's like sometimes I'll think in like movement. If if that makes any sense. And sometimes the movement has a color, so even even if I see a picture, it's usually like moving, and I know that I'm like freeze-framing it, which means I'm like trying to focus on something. I also mean like like thinking in scribbles, like like squiggly lines.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Art in your head.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah. So like when you draw like how do you draw the wind blowing? It's usually like a movement or action. So some people I may not how to draw the wind, but I know how to draw where the wind's going. So it's just it's stuff like that where like some kids may pick it up. Some some people may draw like the wind is in the sky, so they'll just draw the sky. And it doesn't matter where you point at, it's usually all in the right direction. Now you just gotta figure out how to get to the other end or like piece it all together. So for me, it's like to me, like words are like art. I I love like calligraphy and all these different things, so it's it's the same, it's just a communication language, and I I think images and stuff like that can tend to we can share with one another before we use words. Because like I have a friend from Brazil, and we connected like art first before we understood each other's language. Before I like want to learn Portuguese, we can like talk through pictures.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

It's powerful. Yeah, I could see where art would help parents maybe understand what their kids are going through if their kids are picking up on the process that you're sharing. Like if a if a kid goes to one of the classes that you are holding, they adopt that process for themselves. They start doing it at home even. A parent is frustrated. What is my kid going through? I don't understand. What do they need? What do they want? What are they feeling? I could see the kid being able to advocate for his or herself through the art. This is what I'm feeling. This is, I don't know what I need, but I can tell you where I'm at.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

And for me, that was my that was like my baseline, like story. So I'm at my grandma's house, I draw. I love to go outside. I can't go outside. I gotta deal with all this other stuff, pent up energy. So I'll express it on a piece of paper. Words, you know, you're not putting it putting things together as a kid like quietly, like how you should. But if my mom looks at this picture and that picture says something about like how it's drawn or what's happening in the picture, then it that's where the attention kind of like may shift. Whether it's concerning or not, is like they had enough care to to put something on a piece of paper and just sit with it that long and for it to come out. Like I'll deal with kids now, it's like we don't know what he's drawing in class, and like he's just drawing what he feels, what he's thinking, or what he's seeing. I don't think it's really an issue. And it's sometimes it's like if you don't, if kids don't art on like the the pretty flowers or like sports or something, like they get like looked at differently.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

And that kid's just able to like absorb a lot more, is all how could how do you suggest that parents help their child express themselves through creativity and art at home? Do you have any recommendations? Maybe the kid isn't going to a school where you're gonna be stopping by. How can a parent initiate this process with their child?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

So for me, it's it's watching the kid is naturally gonna move and say and do what he wants. Is there any goal? So that's why I say like a a book of goals, like one or two, three goals. Is is there any goals that the kid may want to like move forward in? And the kid is naturally gonna have dreams, things are naturally gonna pop up, day dreams. What are those? And then like how like how does the kid like function? So if you know those three layers, as the parent, you're gonna have to pay attention to that and then like piece them together and see what the kid may be good at. It doesn't have to be good, but what does the kid like what is the attention like focus towards? And if it's if it's like tactile, then get him in something tactile. And and from there, like the kid's creativity like will go off on its own. You just have to watch it and support it. So like I don't come to the schools and try to make them do things. I come to the school and I try to support whatever they got they got going on without them telling me like too in-depth stuff, what's going on at like home. You know, it's like they're at school, they're doing art. This is the only time they get a chance to get it out. If they're not like on the field doing something to the next skit or running around, it's like I get to get it out. And if you don't know how to use it, it's like, well, what do you know how to use? And then so we're going into different mediums at that point. But I'll teach the the concept of drawing, it's not just pencil on paper, it's like drawing one point to the next, and you can keep your thoughts and feelings with it. So it's it's more of a like an uh adult like helping the the child out. You gotta let the child be the child.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah, that's that's a very refreshing concept to it's almost like it's like reverse teaching because when you learn the language, so you speak Portuguese, yeah, a little bit, not as much as I used to.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

She's she's back in Brazil like for four years, so it's like it's it dropped off dramatically.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Okay, no judgment. But when you're first learning a language, that isn't your first language, like your native language, you learn like a baby. Listen, listen, listen, speak. Listen, listen, listen, speak. And what you're suggesting for parents to help their child have that connectedness of emotion through art is the very much the same process. Watch, watch, watch, offer.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yes. And then the one thing I'll add is make sure they don't lose their hand. So what they care about or just their natural care. And what I mean by that is it doesn't matter if you're from it doesn't matter what language you learn. If you're from the South, you're gonna speak in a southern tongue. So you can attribute that to your hand.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

So I'm I'm learning the language, but they're like, no, say it like this. And you're just like, Well, my tongue moves like this.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Um, and I think that part, learning how to mix that in with whatever you're learning without like completely covering it up, is where the creativity like ensues. You don't have to try to be creative, it's there.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Are there any helpful resources for parents that you feel like they should know about?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

There's great people down at the PMA and their at-to-school like programs and like summer programs and whatnot, and they just look to get the kids involved at all times. First city, of course, but if you don't have the resources, for me it's just like pulling out whatever you have, hopefully it's different colors, whatever it is, um, printer paper, crayons, it doesn't matter the brand, and just documenting what you do. Like just look at as okay, today I make these marks and I go on, it'll turn into like a meditation. So you don't have to teach a kid to meditate.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

That's really cool. So, what's next for you? You've volunteered, you substitute at Creative Learning Center, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

And you have a podcast. What what's what's your next goal with art and the kids in Escambia County?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

At some point, I just want to have like a hub here, so like a like a resource and like an art center? Yeah, but that's that's all like it's all like coming to fruition. Like, and there's people that are like doing that here in this area. I would like to like travel with my work. I do understand that some people like credentials and they get excited. I don't care about it too much, but it it does help motivate and inspire. So if that's whatever's needed, then cool. Because I do share the vision of traveling with my art.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

And tell me about your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

So it's the painters dialected, myself, Dylan, Josh Green. Josh Green is the starter, like he founded it all. He's an artist based in New York City, practice at Florence Academy. I'm old studio mate with friends ever since college. The podcast is mainly about critical thinking, art theories, and we just go through like different subject matters and come up with like our own and see where they apply. And like just we're not afraid to like like turn over stones that have just been like given to us. Him himself, Josh Green and Dylan, they kind of go over art theory, I mean critical thinking, and then myself and Josh, we kind of go over like different ways to explore. Like we try to go into the neck of the woods and then come back and build something like, oh, we found this wood and it does this.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I love that the creative process continues. Tell me one more time the name.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

The Painter's Dialectic.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

The Painter's Dialectic?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Okay. And where can people find your artwork and like just kind of stay in touch with all of the creative stuff that you're doing and the resources that you're offering to students?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

For me, it's Criolasensei.art. You can find me on Instagram. I'm usually on there because you get a chance to post pictures.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

I'm not out too much as far as Josh Green and the Painters Dialectic. They're on all like streaming platforms. And Josh has a greenatelier.art where for like beyond the fraction of a cost. So what you gotta learn to like do all these different art practices, he'll teach you. And I'm there as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

That's awesome. Thank you for what you're doing. It's very cool, and I'm happy that you came and talked about it. This was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Scambie County Public Schools.