Ep 103 | Critical thinking: Can it be taught?

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Yeah, and also middle school is one of those times where your your sense of self and the things you believe in is probably the most malleable. There's I think that personally, I had the most development in my entire life during sixth to eighth grade. It's just such a period of growth. And it's really, really important that people like us and of course teachers and parents and all of that do what they can to help these kids develop in the right way so that they can think for themselves and not just, you know, listen to the the news they see on TikTok and things that might not necessarily be the most truthful or might not help them have the most educated opinions. So we were thinking, you know, these kids are just now getting onto social media, just now maybe starting to talk about politics with each other or with their parents, and this is the perfect time to help them create their own opinions.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Welcome to the Voices United in Education podcast. Each week we showcase the teachers, administrators, and community members who go the extra mile to contribute to the success of every student in Escambia County. You'll meet the real people behind the titles and learn about the amazing resources to support every student's success. If you've ever been concerned about kids these days, my next guests will not just be a bright spot, but give hope for the future. They are recent graduates of Pensacola High School where they were international baccalaureate seniors. They use their final project as a way to bring civic education to young people. And today, together with the IB College Counselor, they're going to share what inspired them, how it works, and what's next. Converting creativity to service and information to action, Gloria Eligio, Dylan Patterson, and Audrey Foss. Thanks for being here, guys. Thanks for having us. So, Gloria, can you give us some background of the IB program? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

And we're so fortunate we have a historian, Dr. Colleen Moya, at her trainings in history. And so she is very good about sharing the history of IB with everyone. And Kurt Hahn was one of the founders of IB. IB stands for International Baccalaureate. And it was founded to help families of diplomats and children that were traveling all over the world getting education in multiple locations. And they wanted to have a standardized system of education. But in addition to that, Kurt Hahn, he grew up in Germany during World War I, World War II, and was seeing what was going on there and the very authoritarian regime that was happening there. And how education was very teacher-centered. And along with him and the Montessori educational movement, there was this ideal that him, along with many other educators, wanted to instill in in their students. They wanted students to explore and wanted to build, wanted to build the whole person, right? So instead of just having a teacher in the middle of the classroom talking at students, they wanted students to get out there and do something, right? So Kurt Hahn, along with IB, also founded Outward Bound, which was it's very um outdoor education focused. Um he also founded the United World Colleges movement. He also founded Gordonston, which King Charles III was educated at. And it all focused not only just on the academics, but also on getting students out there and exploring. And so with IB, that's really a cornerstone of what our students do. Not only do they get educated academically in a very rigorous way, there's also other ways that students are exploring and and and doing independent education. So it's it's a very unique feature of IB.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Wow, that's incredible. I mean, there's so when you think about history, I know this is a little rabbit trail, but when you think about history, especially war history, like all the things that would have not happened it had it not been for the impact of the war and what a silver lining that the IB program was one of them. So tell me about the final project, the the CAS project.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Yeah. So CAS stands for creativity, activity and service. And this is done with a feature that Kurt Hahn wanted instilled. So as IB diploma candidates, one of the things that students have to do. They have to dabble in some experiences that challenge them creatively as well as physically, right? So they are supposed to do activities that are both creative and physical in nature, but they also have to complete a CAS project. It's a service-based project that they have to complete. And one of the unique features about this, I think everybody knows of high school students that are going out and volunteering, right? They go to the soup kitchens and or they go to the Humane Society. And those are all great things, but the really unique feature about the CAS project is it has to be initiated by the student. They have to take charge, they have to find something that they're passionate about, an issue within their community, and do something about it. And so that's one of the key features. As I I've told students and and Dylan and Audrey can attest, they shouldn't just be doing what everybody else does, right? Yeah. When they're going and working with an organization. And so what Dylan and Audrey did very well is that they took their passion for law and they're like, we're really concerned about youth today.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

We don't think they're how adorable is it that you're all like kids these days. Am I right? Hey, we have a solution. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

No, and I remember y'all coming in and and you your heart was just so I it was just so good. You saw that there's this gap of knowledge that kids have, right? They have this passion for being active, but there's a gap in knowledge of of what they want to do and how they can get there. Right. And so you guys came to me about this project. And I know I had a couple of little things that I wanted to do that I, you know, gave for advice, but really it was your project and y'all ran with it. And it was just really neat to see your passion for civic engagement and law turn into something really cool.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Yeah. So tell me more about what inspired you. And I want to know the timeline because I want to know how y'all are like connected. Were you walking down the hall one day complaining about kids? Or I mean, you went, you started high school in 2020. There was a lot to complain about. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Certainly. So, so going like out of middle school, I went to two, two middle schools in Escambia County that are failing. One of them has already become a charter school, and the other one, I think they've been looking at it for a few years. And so leaving that, like that area where a lot of the kids were passionate about things, but they were often unsure of like how to go about exploring them, or they were just like uneducated in like what their actual rights were. They had they just had a lot of misunderstandings, and that was something that I saw leaving middle school. And then going into freshman year, I did the law academy at Pensacola High School, which we unfortunately don't have anymore, but it was really fun while we did. And whenever I did that, the teacher encouraged me to join Teen Court, which is a local organization. And instead of sending kids to Juvie, if they plead guilty, they're able to have a essentially a jury of kids their own age decide what they have to do for community service. And so, like you choose how many hours they have to do, you choose what kind of courses they take to make up for their crime. And then after I did that, that's whenever I really started thinking about I heard about the cast project in IB. That's whenever I was like, okay, I think that's what I like, that's sort of what I want to do. And then in sophomore year, whenever we were all talking about like, oh, like we have to start finalizing our cast pro our cast project proposals. And I started talking about it to Audrey, and instantly Audrey wanted to join on.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Because I had nothing at that point, essentially.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

So you were your your uh initial contribution was like, hey, we should do this.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Essentially.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

And then you're like, great, what is this? Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, and I feel like when we first started, we didn't have the same idea for what our project was as we do now. Like originally, I know your idea was to focus on Miranda rights. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like focus on a very specific aspect of civics and just do the in-class presentations. And when we got together and started talking, we realized that oh, we can start doing an essay contest and cover a broad range of civics standards, and that would be a really cool way to, you know, help out some of the kids that might need some extra support in the area of civics.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Wow, that's incredible. That's and then so that turned into the part of the project where you chose who this is gonna serve. Yes. And you chose middle schoolers? Yes. I'm a I'm gonna need some explanation on that because when I think about civil engagement, people who have differing ideas and they exchange them in a civilized way, I do not think about middle schoolers. When I think about six-second TikTok videos, I think about middle schoolers. So why was it important that middle schoolers be the group of people that receive this project?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Well, personally, like I was saying, going to teen court and also the teen middle schools, I noticed that a lot of the times when kids were making these life-altering like mistakes that would get them sent to Juvia or give them permanent records, they were often doing them right out of middle school or in middle school. And I think that was a large reason why I was like, this is the demographic that really needs to be talked to because high schoolers are already hearing about it from, you know, the kids that are older than them, their parents, their teachers around them. But middle schoolers, I've noticed that they often lack that mentorship and that foundation. And that's whenever they were making like these really bad mistakes. And that's part of why I was like, I really think that we should talk to them and try to get them more interested in the community so that way they aren't um negatively impacting it and themselves.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah, and also middle school is one of those times where your your sense of self and the things you believe in is probably the most malleable. There's I think that personally, I had the most development in my entire life during sixth to eighth grade. It's just such a period of growth. And it's really, really important that people like us, and of course teachers and parents and all of that do what they can to help these kids develop in the right way so that they can think for themselves and not just, you know, listen to the the news they see on TikTok and things that might not necessarily be the most truthful or might not help them have the most educated opinions. So we were thinking, you know, these kids are just now getting onto social media, just now maybe starting to talk about politics with each other or with their parents, and this is the perfect time to help them create their own opinions.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Oh, I love that. Okay, so tell me what it looks like. What is the experience from the point of view of a middle schooler?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

We actually did do a sort of like a mock presentation, except it was like an actual one, but it was just our trial run at the creative learning academy where Audrey went to middle school because um her old teacher, Amy Parker, is actually our cast supervisor. So she kind of helped us um organize our project and like she would give us the names of like some of the people in the community that we should reach out to. And so we actually did do a presentation at the Creative Learning Academy where we asked the kids to give us feedback, and for the most part, I would say it was pretty positive. Um they enjoyed it, but we did try to incorporate their feedback so like they wanted more questions. That was one of the things they wanted was to for it to be more interactive.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

And so after that, we made we made it a point to ask more questions, and we also started like handing out candy during our presentation to make it more like interactive and get the kids excited to actually answer.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Anytime you can make it a little bit more like Mardi Gras.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

That's winning. That's winning. And another thing is we're, you know, we're not that much older than them. We we were in their shoes like maybe, you know, five, six years ago. And so I feel like we kind of had a really good perspective on what these middle schoolers would like, what they would enjoy hearing about and in which which ways we should be teaching this to them. And so one of the things that I remember I really liked in middle school was doing cahoots, you know, like online games where you answer questions and there's a leaderboard and everything like that. And so right off the bat, we were like, okay, we need to do a cahoot so that everyone actually pays attention to our presentation and then we can give them a reward candy after they are done and if they get first place or second or third or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Oh, that's so smart. I didn't think about the fact that they would look up to you in a different way than they would someone who is the age of their parents.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

So, but tell me what the the actual presentation consisted of, the actual program, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Yeah. So we cover, I think maybe 15 civic standards that they need for their civics EOC that they take at the end of seventh grade. And so we cover a broad range of those, but it was more the things that we found most important for them to know about at this age. You know, we didn't really cover like the history of the constitution too much and things like that. We more covered, you know, the amendments, certain rights that affect them in their day-to-day life, and as well as helping them learn about important figures that are in our political system, making sure that they know, you know, who the president is, who the vice president is, things like that. How did you take it beyond memorizing?

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Because, you know, when you're a kid and you're you're like, hey, the foot will be a test, whether it's cahoots or affecting your grade, there is a route memorization component that doesn't really resonate. How did you make it resonate?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah, I think that one of the things is adding a lot of examples, things that, you know, because when you're learning about it in your civics class, it feels just, you know, you're studying for your tests. You don't really think about how it applies to you. So we used a lot of examples to make sure they understood that these are things that actually affect them. You know, it isn't just like a bunch of old dudes who wrote up a document. You know, it's like it's really, really, really important, and here's why. So we tried to, you know, present it from a different angle, like, oh, this amendment affects you because and that's part of the reason that our essay contest was so important, I think, because we m kind of forced them to think critically about the different concepts that they're learning in their civics class instead of just kind of reciting them and regurgitating the information they learned.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

What was an example of how you tied it into their daily lives?

SPEAKER_02 14:12

When we were in our presentation, I wanted to focus heavily on like the 19th Amendment and things like that, kind of relating to the other girls in the classroom saying, Hey, we didn't always have the right to vote, and now we do. You need to understand how important it is that you go out and vote because, you know, 100 years or a little over 100 years ago, you wouldn't have been able to do that. And that's kind of one of the ways that I personally wanted to connect with the girls in the class. But there were definitely other examples. And we saw that in our essay contest. People wrote about a w wide, wide variety of different amendments. You know, I think some of the most popular was obviously like the 19th Amendment, the First Amendment.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

The 14th of 14th.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

Yes. And I think when y'all came to me, your your initial focus seemed to be the First Amendment rights as students. I think that was something that was very important to your class, right? Just being able to speak your opinion, but do so in an informed way within the the the realm of the educational system and and do so in a respectful manner. So I understand that was a big focus. So I I mean, is that something that you I my understanding is that something you address with your your middle school students and teaching them how to do that in the right way? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

The First Amendment. Oh, okay. Yeah, just uh you know, just petitioning and speaking and and like ensuring that you're like n non-inflammatory with your language and seeking out like proper sources.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

That was definitely something that we Yeah, speaking of proper sources, a big thing that we did talk about was misinformation. That kind of plays a large role, especially with you know, technology is so new, social media and all that is so new that I don't really think that everyone knows the best ways to spot misinformation and how to have an educated opinion, how to form that opinion. So that's kind of a big thing that we covered as well. So tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Unpack that a little bit because most adults don't know how to get information because let me give you a little insight to the elders of our community. So, like we I grew up with both with no internet, no digital anything, and then boom, internet. But your parents grew up only with digital. So all they know is Charlie bit my finger. Do you know about Charlie Bit My Finger?

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I remember that. Oh, I know. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

That's the internet your parents know and love. It is innocent, it is delightful. Nothing bad can happen, and everything on it is true. Okay. So, like, they don't even know how to find credible sources. So, I mean, tell me how you explained it to kids because I think people listening would even want to know.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

One of the things that we talked about is whenever you're looking for new sources, is to look at the kind of language that they're using. If they're using inflammatory and sort of derogatory, very biased language, then that's kind of an indicator that, and that's one of the things that we talked about, is that that's an indicator that the source may be skewed and trying to portray an event as being different from what it may have been. We did have to be really careful talking about the different sources and things though, because we couldn't like outright say, like, oh, this source isn't necessarily credible, because we did have to make sure that we were very nonpartisan with our presentation. And so for the most part, for that, we just kind of encouraged them to not take it directly from like social media, TikTok, and to instead look for third-party verified sources that you know they have reviews that have that are credible, and and to specifically look for sources that are not portraying things like biased in a biased manner.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

No, and I know one of the cornerstones of again, just to bring it back to IB theory of knowledge, I know that's a class where you guys really had to think critically. And that's a theory of knowledge is an epistemological class, right? Where you're the the question is, how do we know what we know? Right. And so it's really nice to see you both kind of take that initiative with that knowledge of like, let's think really c critically about how knowledge is disseminated and you know, how is it disseminated in different subject areas and uh you know, and how is knowledge disseminated in the natural sciences versus art versus all these different things. And so I'm sure you guys were tired of writing up bibliographies and doing all those sorts of things, but I'm really just being able to back up um what you say and what um um and what information you're providing to people. So that's really neat to see.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

But that's major, Gloria. Absolutely. Knowing how do I know what I know? How do you know what you know? And that is so because as a student, you have all you hear a lot of voices. And I mean that in the non-psychosis way. You hear the voice of your teacher, your parents, your coaches, and you want to please all of them. But how do you within all of that know what your own voice is? Like, do I want this because I want a good grade? Do I want this because I want to please my parents? Or is this what I want? And finding your own voice is difficult for lots of people. And for those individuals who are very empathet empathetic, it becomes even more complicated because you're like, am I feeling my own feelings or am I feeling the feelings of the people in the room? This is, you know, it really adds lots of layers to that.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Yeah. And with theory of knowledge, it's really about unpacking those biases, right, of of other people and and not taking things on face value. So many and that's really that critical analysis that you're asking those students to do and that you both have done, right? And and not taking things on face value. And so much of what we see on the internet, they're saying, you know, that it's just being thrown in your face and they want you to take it on face value. But there's there's so much history behind all those statements that are coming out, and there's so much background knowledge that needs to be provided, context that needs to be provided to really understand what's going on and and all those different things that become a lot more complex that way, but you get to understand them in a different way and be more informed.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

So and this is all a part of the IB program, the epistocracy, kind of like all this stuff.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Oh, duh uh and and so theory of knowledge is part of what they call the core of IB. So any IB diploma candidate, they take a course in one of the six subjects. So that's English, world language, math science, social studies, and the arts or an elective. And then we have the core. So there's theory of knowledge. Again, we're really asking students how do we know what we know, right? Um, again, not to just take things on face value. How do we gain knowledge from math, the natural sciences, art, religion? And we gain knowledge in all those different aspects. Students also write an extended essay that's a 4,000 independent research question, again, really engaging that critical thinking, right? Independent. And then of course, cast, creativity, activity, and service. That's what they call the heart of IB. So you're taking all those different components of IB, that academic knowledge, the critical thinking, and you're going out into the world using those gifts and talents to make it a better place. And that's really what I think sets IB apart. And and and different academic programs have, you know, tried copying that in different ways. Um, but IB really does focus on making international, globally minded citizens that are actively engaged in their community. So I think that's something Audrey and Dylan did really well, is that they they wanted to instill that in in middle school students as they're coming up. They're already primed for that. They're learning civic engagement in their classes, and they're about to get bombarded in high school with all of these different thoughts and opinions. And oftentimes, you know, middle school is definitely a smaller place. And especially with school choice that we have here in Escambia County, students go from, you know, their little small middle school to a lot of different different places that you're part of this cultural milieu that's probably really different than your middle school. I know for both of you, probably coming to PHS was a little bit different. Yeah. And that's good. And I think that's probably one of the reasons why you chose to be at IB at PHS. But you need to be ready to face differing opinions and and to think about it critically. And and to be able to provide your own opinion on that. So I think again, this project was something that was really great just because you were able to take that critical reflexivity, right? You're able to really take that critical thing critical knowledge and being able to analyze things and take that to middle school students. Yeah, so important.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

I think that the core of what Gloria is saying is exactly, if I'm hearing you right, what you wanted to pass on, but just a little earlier. Yes. Yes. Yes. And how smart that y'all have done that. So this sounds like an amazing program that you've set up. What happens to it after you're gone? Because you're graduated.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Yeah, well, we're hoping to expand. Um, we're not going to be near each other. I'm going to Virginia and he's going to North Carolina for college.

SPEAKER_04 22:45

But we're So Washington and Lee and Duke University. We're very excited for them. Had to plug that in there as the college counselor.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Super excited. Yeah, but we'll definitely be working remotely, but we are definitely working on people that can take over our chapter in Pensacola and hoping to find people in other parts of the country that can start their own chapters and turn this into kind of more of a national thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

We actually have had someone reach out to us from California who was interested in starting a chapter out of there. We do need to, that's still very early though. And so we need to see how that's going to work out.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Yeah, yeah. We're we're definitely going to get plugged in more with social media, making sure we can find other high schoolers with similar passions all across the country and hopefully start something that has a broader impact on the country as a whole. So that's definitely our main goal for this coming year.

unknown 23:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

That's exciting. So how many schools in Escambia County have the IB program? Because I feel like that would be low-hanging fruit for spreading the program that you've started. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

So Pensacola High School is the only one in Escambia County. The closest one is at Choctaw High School in Okaloosa County. So and we're we're we're bigger than the our diploma program is a little bit bigger than theirs. But yeah, we're the only one in Escambia County.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

Wow, that's so special. That's so awesome that y'all were able to do this. Yeah and that you're spreading these concepts through the package differently so that more high schools could could experience them. As we wrap up, Audrey, you're a fellow podcaster. I want to hear all about your show.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah, so I've been taking a bit of a break, but I have a pod chat. Excuse me. A pod chat, actually. I like that a lot. I have a podcast called Education with Audrey Foss, where I talk about kind of more of my personal views on different educational issues. I'm planning on starting to post again this coming school year. I've been taking a break, but you know, I just I have so many opinions on different issues, and I think it's really important to, you know, share my opinions and hopefully people out there will kind of see my perspective and consider it and hopefully, you know, learn something. So yeah, it's called Education with Audrey Foss. It's on Spotify. And I believe I also have an Instagram called at education with Audrey Foss.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

So that's exciting. And because what you did with IB and what you're doing with the Young Citizens Development is all about finding your voice. How perfect that you have a podcast. It will be very interesting to check in with you 10 years from now to look back at the opinions that you shared on your podcast, you know, while you were senior in high school. Time capsule. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

It really is. That's the cool thing about podcasting. So it'll be interesting to see how different issues that I talk about have changed and evolved since then, too.

SPEAKER_04 25:27

And then didn't you interview the former president of the Southern Poverty Law Center?

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Yes, I did. I interviewed Richard Cohen, I believe last summer, so almost a year ago. Oh my goodness. Yeah, but we talked a lot about, you know, how hate affects our overall society, but also in terms of schools. And that was definitely my favorite episode that I've done. You should definitely go check it out. Do you know the episode number? Um, I think it might have been my second one.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

It's really early. That's awesome. Well, we will definitely link that in the show notes because that's super cool. Where can we find out more about the Young Citizens Development and the IB program?

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Yeah, so Young Citizens Development has a a website. It's just www.young citizensdevelopment.org. And we also are starting up our Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Do you remember? I believe it's just Young Citizens Develop at Young Citizens Development. And we will be posting on that more in the coming months as we're figuring out who's taking over our project and sort of the direction that they want to go with it next year if they want to do the exact same thing or if they want to focus more on essays or presentations.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Yeah, and then to learn more about the IB program, you can really just type in Pet School High School IB and our website will pop up and you can get the emails for our IB coordinator, Dr. Colleen Boyette, she's amazing, or myself, and just learn a little bit more about how our program is run and just what IB is all about.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Thank you all. This was awesome. And I you don't need it, but I wish you the best of luck in all that's next. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you for having me. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe and share. Voices United in Education is a production of Scambia County Public Schools.